Unecessary cdr step in transfers of recording with known and unknown lineage.

[Lucifer burns]

Alright, thank you for ALL responding!!
i will do more research and i will download that link, but now i think i do have the answer i was looking for.
I really appreciate the help & clarity in the matter.
It can be a bit confusing.


P.S. The only reason i chose the Hi-MD recorder over a digital recorder is my "oldschool" way of thinking.
I like the fact that when using Analog tape/DAT/Minidisc, you had an actually "Master" you could go back to over and over if needed.
I'm still trying to learn all this new computer stuff.
With a digital recorder, once you transfer the music to you computer you better hope you don't lose it or worse have a hard drive crash(I know a few people this has happened to)there goes you "master".
But yes, it now seems everything will be obsolete soon, DAT is as dead as Minidisc now??

[AAR.oner]

yup DAT is dead too, i still have a bunch takin up space in a closet floor

[paddington]

You don't need DAT.
Fuck DAT.
DAT's a cumbersome way to record, these days.
If it's all you have, DAT's ok, but you should find something better than DAT.

[dcbullet]

Is dat true?

[jabulon]

Originally Posted by Lucifer burns

... With a digital recorder, once you transfer the music to you computer you better hope you don't lose it or worse have a hard drive crash(I know a few people this has happened to)there goes you "master". ...

That's why it's advisable to always make a back up of the stuff you care about (like masters, photo's etc.)

[paddington]

simply buy a 1TB usb drive to copy your stuff to about once a month or when you do a big project. Less than $100 these days.


MUCH less likely to fail than a CDR.

[tonebloke]

I'm learning here!

[co9ol]

Originally Posted by dcbullet

Is dat true?

[GRC]

Would the OP call this an 'unnecessary' CDR step?

"Recording Lineage
Sony Mono Cassette Recorder with built-in mic -> Cassette(M)

Playback Lineage
Cassette(M) -> Alesis Masterlink @ 44.1kHz, 16-bit (track splits, level adjustment, fades) -> CDR -> EAC to wav, TLH to flac "

???

[Audioarchivist]

Originally Posted by GRC

Would the OP call this an 'unnecessary' CDR step?

"Recording Lineage
Sony Mono Cassette Recorder with built-in mic -> Cassette(M)

Playback Lineage
Cassette(M) -> Alesis Masterlink @ 44.1kHz, 16-bit (track splits, level adjustment, fades) -> CDR -> EAC to wav, TLH to flac "

???

I'm not a mod (and I don't even play one on T.V., either!) but I'd say it depends on a few mitigating circumstances...
I know in my own experience that a few of my earliest transfers of my own master tapes were done on a borrowed computer, and the original data of the master .wav files was deleted by the computer's owner. All I have of those transfers are "master" audio CD-r's, and I've shared some of those here.
Perfectly acceptable.
I would say if a recording is a master and it's coming from a taper as an audio CD-r that it is not only "legal" lineage, but that it might be necessary for the reason above (legacy master transfer to CD-r) or the tapers that transfer straight to a standalone CD burner.
Now, if this master transfer you're talking about was made yesterday, and they're deliberately burning to CD-r and re-extracting the files right next to the original .wav files and they still have access to those original non-CD-r'd files, then they're just being dumb to burn the files to audio CD-r's for no reason...
So, more details of the circumstances of how and why those files are coming from CD-r can make them good to go. What kind of timeline are we talking about between the tape to CD-r transfer and the EAC extraction? Is there any chance to get the master .wav files pre-CD-r? Does the taper / trader have the necessary knowledge to do this right, or do we have to take what we can get from them because they don't know how to do it any other way and they'll stop sharing with you / us if we make them change?

[GRC]

Originally Posted by Audioarchivist

So, more details of the circumstances of how and why those files are coming from CD-r can make them good to go. What kind of timeline are we talking about between the tape to CD-r transfer and the EAC extraction?

Assuming you're talking directly about the lineage I quoted, I don't see what difference a timeline makes, unless you're suggesting that the data on the CDR will decay before the EAC transfer....

Is there any chance to get the master .wav files pre-CD-r?

Not from this lineage, as they don't exist as .wav prior to making the CDR

Does the taper / trader have the necessary knowledge to do this right, or do we have to take what we can get from them because they don't know how to do it any other way and they'll stop sharing with you / us if we make them change?

Tell me what 'necessary knowledge' you feel is missing, and I'll tell you if I have it. And yes, that lineage is from a show that I uploaded.

[Audioarchivist]

Originally Posted by GRC

Assuming you're talking directly about the lineage I quoted, I don't see what difference a timeline makes, unless you're suggesting that the data on the CDR will decay before the EAC transfer....

Not from this lineage, as they don't exist as .wav prior to making the CDR

Tell me what 'necessary knowledge' you feel is missing, and I'll tell you if I have it. And yes, that lineage is from a show that I uploaded.

OK, after a Google search that I didn't do earlier, the Alesis Masterlink is a standalone hard disk recorder that spits out CD-r's as the finished product.... I didn't realize that and thought it was just an audio interface for a computer and they burned an audio CD-r from the computer for their storage purposes, but that's not the case, is it?

So, the transfer has been done outside of the computer realm on standalone audio equipment and then ripped to the computer to share. Fine. They don't have the knowledge or ability to go straight into the computer but prefer to do it on an oldschool unit... That looks acceptable! I still wouldn't call it the "best" way to get audio shared (no hi-res files this way!) but it works. A standalone transfer to an outboard CD burner means a CD-r / EAC extraction is totally necessary!

Technically with this unit, though, the files DO exist as .wav files before the CD-r is burned, as it records to an internal hard drive so you can edit and master the recording inside the unit (much like you can do with a computer) and then burn your edited and finalized CD. Since the unit can record at 24/96, I wonder if you can export the files directly from the hard drive in the unit and bypass the CD-r step? Perhaps it might be unnecessary after all?

[GRC]

Originally Posted by Audioarchivist

OK, after a Google search that I didn't do earlier, the Alesis Masterlink is a standalone hard disk recorder that spits out CD-r's as the finished product....

Yup.

That looks acceptable!

I still wouldn't call it the "best" way to get audio shared (no hi-res files this way!) but it works.

Disagree. Look at the spec for the Alesis, it goes to 24/96 if I want it to.

A standalone transfer to an outboard CD burner means a CD-r / EAC extraction is totally necessary!

Yes.

Technically with this unit, though, the files DO exist as .wav files before the CD-r is burned, as it records to an internal hard drive so you can edit and master the recording inside the unit (much like you can do with a computer) and then burn your edited and finalized CD. Since the unit can record at 24/96, I wonder if you can export the files directly from the hard drive in the unit and bypass the CD-r step? Perhaps it might be unnecessary after all?

There's no means to access the files on the HDD other than by spitting out a CDR, either as a redbook CD, or as a set of .AIFF files, at whatever resolution has been committed to the HDD. Audio recorded at 24/96 outputs a 24/96 AIFF to the CDR.

I'm not convinced it stores them on the HDD as .WAV files anyway. It uses its own proprietary operating system, and even taking the HDD out of the machine, and connecting to a PC, it's unreadable by a windows machine.

I fully anticipate that some reader's response, possibly yours, will be - why not feed the audio direct to a computer and bypass the Masterlink?

My response would be - why should I? Is there anything inherently wrong with doing it this way? The Alesis was designed as a pro-grade piece of studio kit, it's widely quoted that the DA and AD converters are amongst the best in the biz, so I'd have to hunt around for a soundcard that matched them ....

And then there's the practical consideration of - all computer upstairs, hifi (with all sources & media) downstairs.

[AAR.oner]

yer setup, due to quality AD/DA converters, offers little or no problems

unfortunately, the vast majority of folks don't have access to pro gear, and are using a standalone that cost em $80, which can introduce a helluva lot of errors! there is no set in stone answer, as it depends on the gear used in every step of the chain




also, burning the PCM files [.aiff on Macs, .wav on Windows] as data & trading that way is of little concern, its when burned as a redbook Audio CD where extraction is required -- this is where errors occur & should thus be avoided when at all possible

[diggrd]

Originally Posted by Lucifer burns

So this is the only program on the market that can tell us when a Minidisc recording made after 1/1/2008 is lossy or not??

Cool Edit Pro 2.x / Adobe Audition

This not a cheap program and i did not see a "free trial version" available.

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitl...s2%5Fdownloads

look here once you log in to an adobe account.