Unecessary cdr step in transfers of recording with known and unknown lineage.

[juxtiphi]

I have noticed that there are those who transfer music from what they say are masters or 1gen tapes and the new lineage now includes a rip from cd because instead of sharing the transfer directly they burn a cd and rip it from there for sharing.

this seems unnecessary to me, am I wrong?

[AAR.oner]

completely unnecessary, and adds the possibility of introducing errors

[uninvited94]

But what if it isn't your own master or low gen? A trusted friend of yours has transferred his tapes for you and sent you the CDRs, you have a verified lineage and rip the CDR with EAC? I have dozens of "masters" that way.

[AAR.oner]

i usually ask em to send the wav(s) on a Data CDR, not an Audio CDR...that way there's no extraction process

but if they won't do it that way, then i guess thats the best yer gonna get

[juxtiphi]

Originally Posted by uninvited94

But what if it isn't your own master or low gen? A trusted friend of yours has transferred his tapes for you and sent you the CDRs, you have a verified lineage and rip the CDR with EAC? I have dozens of "masters" that way.

Thats ok and I understand that, I have a bunch of stuff that came that way in a snail mail trades but here is an example of what i mean.

LINEAGE AUDIENCE DAT MASTER FIBER OPTIC TRANSFER TO CDR
BY --- -- TO EAC TO TLH FLAC LEVEL 8 TO YOU

this lineage suggests that they did the optic transfer to cdr so I am wondering why rip from the cd if they did the transfer themselves

[AAR.oner]

sounds like they are doing a DAT > standalone CD burner [via optical]

maybe they don't have the capabilities to do DAT > computer? or maybe its just how they wanna do it, i know thats what Freezer used to do

[juxtiphi]

Originally Posted by AAR.oner

sounds like they are doing a DAT > standalone CD burner [via optical]

maybe they don't have the capabilities to do DAT > computer? or maybe its just how they wanna do it, i know thats what Freezer used to do

Thats just one of the lineages I have seen, all their torrents have slightly different lineages ( equipment is usually different) but with a cdr step which seems on purpose but if its right to cdr then that would explain it.

[rspencer]

Not unusual with DAT. DAT drives for PCs are data drives, and don't always play well with music DATs. It's easier to just go directly to standalone CDR.

[Lucifer burns]

Let's all keep in mind that some of us are "oldtimers" and don't have the money to invest in new equipment or learn how to use all these new computer programs that for a novice can be very confusing.
Also while i respect this sites desire for quality uploads, it seems that they have passed judgement on what they believe in their minds is the right way and make it actually hard for people like me to share music here.
I understand why some formats are not allowed as they are truly lossy, but as an example of a recent problem, to ban all Minidisc recordings after 1/1/2008, seems more like a personal choice of the site rather then anything else.
Now if they have the research to prove ALL Minidisc recorders are lossy after 2008, i can understand the ban. But they have shown no proof, themselves and i doubt they did any real research before deciding on that.
If not, i would not be trying so hard to prove that my SONY Hi-MD recorder model MZ-M200 purchused in late 2009(After their ban) makes "Lossless" recordings.

[paddington]

Minidisc recordings are not banned, for any year, at TTD.

What is banned is ATRAC compression, used by most MiniDisc recorders, on any recording made after Jan 1 2008... because there is no reason to use ATRAC any longer.

If you make a lossless / uncompressed PCM recording, using a MiniDisc recorder, you may share it here, no problem.


In a nutshell, TTD requires lossless audio but makes exception for ATRAC compression on recordings made before Jan 1 2008... due to the state of recording technology in the years preceding that date.

[Audioarchivist]

As far as CDR in the lineage goes, I know that before I really knew what I was doing that I mastered a few of my tapes (with a borrowed computer) and was forced to make audio cdr's because I couldn't save the .wav data files. I do believe that a master > cdr from a taper is, while not an ideal situation, is acceptable....

Right?

[Lucifer burns]

Originally Posted by jameskg

Minidisc recordings are not banned, for any year, at TTD.

What is banned is ATRAC compression, used by most MiniDisc recorders, on any recording made after Jan 1 2008... because there is no reason to use ATRAC any longer.

If you make a lossless / uncompressed PCM recording, using a MiniDisc recorder, you may share it here, no problem.


In a nutshell, TTD requires lossless audio but makes exception for ATRAC compression on recordings made before Jan 1 2008... due to the state of recording technology in the years preceding that date.

So this is the only program on the market that can tell us when a Minidisc recording made after 1/1/2008 is lossy or not??

Cool Edit Pro 2.x / Adobe Audition

This not a cheap program and i did not see a "free trial version" available.

Before i purchused the SONY Hi-MD MZ-M200 i researched it in 2009(i was already a member here)to make sure it was not ATRAC or lossy in the standard modes. The manual even clearly denotes this with out actually using the word "lossy".
What i really think happened is that the technology has changed in Minidisc recorders since your ban in 2008, and you just don't want to admit you've made a mistake.
Instead it seems you want me to jump thru "hoops" to prove otherwise.
I've submitted the same frequency analysis at two other sites and they pass he "lossy test" for their sites, but it not good enough here??

Come on guys let's pull that ban until you can prove the oppisite or just admit that the technology changed and you were unaware.
We all make mistakes and no one will hold it against you.

I have no desire what's so ever to share "lossy" recordings and would glad support the ban....if you can prove otherwise.

[Audioarchivist]

Originally Posted by Lucifer burns

So this is the only program on the market that can tell us when a Minidisc recording made after 1/1/2008 is lossy or not??

Cool Edit Pro 2.x / Adobe Audition

This not a cheap program and i did not see a "free trial version" available.

Before i purchused the SONY Hi-MD MZ-M200 i researched it in 2009(i was already a member here)to make sure it was not ATRAC or lossy in the standard modes. The manual even clearly denotes this with out actually using the word "lossy".
What i really think happened is that the technology has changed in Minidisc recorders since your ban in 2008, and you just don't want to admit you've made a mistake.
Instead it seems you want me to jump thru "hoops" to prove otherwise.
I've submitted the same frequency analysis at two other sites and they pass he "lossy test" for their sites, but it not good enough here??

Come on guys let's pull that ban until you can prove the oppisite or just admit that the technology changed and you were unaware.
We all make mistakes and no one will hold it against you.

I have no desire what's so ever to share "lossy" recordings and would glad support the ban....if you can prove otherwise.

Same post - two threads?

See my response here:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...9&postcount=12

[AAR.oner]

luciferburns --


1) the MZ-M200 records in numerous formats, depending on what you set it to -- Linear PCM, ATRAC, ATRAC3, ATRAC3Plus

2) Linear PCM is lossless, any form of ATRAC compression is lossy -- so a recording made on the MZ-M200 would most certainly be allowed, so long as it was recorded in Linear PCM mode

3) MiniDisc technology did not "change after our ban", other than becoming an even more outdated recording format, eventually going completely obsolete in either 2010 or 2011


as stated repeatedly for years -- TTD has not banned MiniDisc recordings, its banned LOSSY ATRAC recordings...its not the recorder thats the issue, it the recording format -- you could record with an SD744t, one fo the finest field recorders in the business, and if you recorded in mp3 format instead of Linear PCM it wouldn't be allowed either!

as for posting a Spectrum Analysis using Audition [formerly CEP] to indicate whether a recording is lossy or not -- no its not the only program out there, although its one of the better ones for Windows platform in the inexpensive range [yes thats considered inexpensive in the audio recording realm]...personally, i use iZotope's Ozone Masterin plug-in with Ableton Live, which has excellent functionality



however you already posted screenshots of a recording in Lossy/Lossless Forum using CoolEdit's Spectrum Analysis tool, so:

1) you do have the program & know how to do this
2) i would assume you know what recording format you used, but if not no worries -- just turn the SA to Color Mode [not B&W] and zoom in til approx 2sec worth of music is displayed in the window...screen capture a couple of different 2sec sections of music for us to compare....or if that makes no sense, follow instructions below




for others who don't have Audion/CEP, no problem!
you don't have to do the SA yerself, simply upload a 5-10 sec section of yer recording [mid song is best, when all instruments are playing at normal level] to one of the numerous file sharing sites out there, post a link to it and one of the regs around here will analyze for you

[JackDog]

Originally Posted by Lucifer burns

What i really think happened is that the technology has changed in Minidisc recorders since your ban in 2008, and you just don't want to admit you've made a mistake.
Instead it seems you want me to jump thru "hoops" to prove otherwise.

What I really think happened is that the technology Lucifer burns owns is outdated, and he just doesn't want to admit he made a mistake when he bought it. Instead it seems he wants to jump through hoops to "prove" that he didn't make a mistake.

Free tip for Lucifer burns: You can get a used Edirol R-09 for around $50 on eBay. Buy one and throw away your minidisc recorder.