The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble
 

Notices

Technobabble Post your general Need for Help questions here.
Lossy or Lossless?
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 2013-02-02, 06:32 PM
Audioarchivist's Avatar
Audioarchivist Audioarchivist is offline
Recording/Mastering Engineer
560.16 GB/1.94 TB/3.54
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Re: Unecessary cdr step in transfers of recording with known and unknown lineage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRC View Post
There's no means to access the files on the HDD other than by spitting out a CDR, either as a redbook CD, or as a set of .AIFF files, at whatever resolution has been committed to the HDD. Audio recorded at 24/96 outputs a 24/96 AIFF to the CDR.

I'm not convinced it stores them on the HDD as .WAV files anyway. It uses its own proprietary operating system, and even taking the HDD out of the machine, and connecting to a PC, it's unreadable by a windows machine.

I fully anticipate that some reader's response, possibly yours, will be - why not feed the audio direct to a computer and bypass the Masterlink?

My response would be - why should I? Is there anything inherently wrong with doing it this way? The Alesis was designed as a pro-grade piece of studio kit, it's widely quoted that the DA and AD converters are amongst the best in the biz, so I'd have to hunt around for a soundcard that matched them ....

And then there's the practical consideration of - all computer upstairs, hifi (with all sources & media) downstairs.
I said it's not the best because it outputs to CDR as a redbook audio 16/44.1 in your lineage. It would be better if you could output the 24/96 aiff files (basically the same as wav files for this discussion) as data CDR's it would be better than the unnecessary EAC extraction. Redbook audio CD's are written differently than data CD-r's and are much more prone to errors than a data disk so that would be much better, plus you could share in hi-res with the data disk output. Whatever the machine's proprietary internal operating system is, if it's recording lossless 24 bit 96 khz internally and you can get those files out of the machine somehow, the redbook is kind of unnecessary...
__________________
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
- Dr. Hunter S. Thompson (1937-2005)
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #32  
Old 2013-02-03, 06:16 AM
GRC's Avatar
GRC GRC is online now
Trader since 1980
1.86 TB/1.37 TB/0.73
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Re: Unecessary cdr step in transfers of recording with known and unknown lineage.

Yes, but that would introduce a sample rate and bit rate conversion in order to share them as 16/44 - which is what I reckon most folks here, and at DaD, would want.

Which would you say is worse - taking analogue and converting to 16/44 at the outset, and keeping that resolution constant to the FLAC stage, or converting to 24/96 at the outset, creating track splits, fades, outputting AIFF files in 24/96, then converting to 16/44?

Yes, I know in an ideal world it would be great to work with 24/96 all the time, but it would (a) limit the number of projects I could work at on the HDD - 24/96 occupies more HDD real-estate than 16/44, and would (b) roughly quadruple the number of CDRs I'd need - 80 mins on a single redbook equates to around 4 or 5 discs written as 24/96 AIFFs

I've committed a number of 'special' FM items to 24/96 for archiving, but for the vast majority of AUD shows ..... no.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #33  
Old 2013-02-03, 07:53 AM
Audioarchivist's Avatar
Audioarchivist Audioarchivist is offline
Recording/Mastering Engineer
560.16 GB/1.94 TB/3.54
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Re: Unecessary cdr step in transfers of recording with known and unknown lineage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRC View Post
Yes, but that would introduce a sample rate and bit rate conversion in order to share them as 16/44 - which is what I reckon most folks here, and at DaD, would want.

Which would you say is worse - taking analogue and converting to 16/44 at the outset, and keeping that resolution constant to the FLAC stage, or converting to 24/96 at the outset, creating track splits, fades, outputting AIFF files in 24/96, then converting to 16/44?

Yes, I know in an ideal world it would be great to work with 24/96 all the time, but it would (a) limit the number of projects I could work at on the HDD - 24/96 occupies more HDD real-estate than 16/44, and would (b) roughly quadruple the number of CDRs I'd need - 80 mins on a single redbook equates to around 4 or 5 discs written as 24/96 AIFFs

I've committed a number of 'special' FM items to 24/96 for archiving, but for the vast majority of AUD shows ..... no.
Well, then, don't record at hi res and just do it at 16/44.1 to the unit's internal hard drive and burn a data CD-r you can take to a computer to read without doing the redbook audio CD-r / EAC extraction step. If you DON'T have to do an audio CD-r with this unit, then why do it?

If the intent is solely to have a redbook CD, and there is no editing or processing needed for the files then capturing at 16/44.1 will suit those specific set of needs. If you have to do ANY post-processing to the files (raise levels, do fades, EQ, etc...) then most definitely it's still better to capture at 24/96 and process in hi res and then downsample and dither to 16/44.1 resolution....

I agree that a lot of folks haven't quite picked up yet on the concept of hi-res files, but I do believe that in the long run as hard drives grow larger and computers get even more powerful and bandwidth expands yet again that 24/96 will one day be considered "low resolution" and 16/44.1 will be looked at with the dread of an eMPty3 today! I'd rather have it in as high a bitrate as I can, now, instead of looking back with regret that I didn't capture it as good as I could have....

So, count me with the people that wish you WOULD use as full resolution as possible....
__________________
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
- Dr. Hunter S. Thompson (1937-2005)
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #34  
Old 2013-02-03, 11:07 AM
GRC's Avatar
GRC GRC is online now
Trader since 1980
1.86 TB/1.37 TB/0.73
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Re: Unecessary cdr step in transfers of recording with known and unknown lineage.

Admire and appreciate your enthusiasm, but;

"just do it at 16/44.1 to the unit's internal hard drive and burn a data CD-r you can take to a computer to read without doing the redbook audio CD-r / EAC extraction step. If you DON'T have to do an audio CD-r with this unit, then why do it?"

Yes, that would be better if the sole purpose was to render data files for upload, and perhaps one day, when a suitable file replay/streaming system is a practical option, that might be the way to go, but, at present, I want to upload, but I also want to be able to listen to what I've generated from the Alesis (since I'm trying to avoid replaying the source tapes), and for the time being, at least, that has to be redbook CDs. It's either that or generate two discs, one data disc for uploading, and another redbook for listening, and that brings me back to the doubling of CD blank purchases, and storage/filing considerations.

A data disc would only be replayable on the Alesis or via a computer.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #35  
Old 2013-02-03, 05:17 PM
Audioarchivist's Avatar
Audioarchivist Audioarchivist is offline
Recording/Mastering Engineer
560.16 GB/1.94 TB/3.54
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Re: Unecessary cdr step in transfers of recording with known and unknown lineage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRC View Post
Admire and appreciate your enthusiasm, but;

"just do it at 16/44.1 to the unit's internal hard drive and burn a data CD-r you can take to a computer to read without doing the redbook audio CD-r / EAC extraction step. If you DON'T have to do an audio CD-r with this unit, then why do it?"

Yes, that would be better if the sole purpose was to render data files for upload, and perhaps one day, when a suitable file replay/streaming system is a practical option, that might be the way to go, but, at present, I want to upload, but I also want to be able to listen to what I've generated from the Alesis (since I'm trying to avoid replaying the source tapes), and for the time being, at least, that has to be redbook CDs. It's either that or generate two discs, one data disc for uploading, and another redbook for listening, and that brings me back to the doubling of CD blank purchases, and storage/filing considerations.

A data disc would only be replayable on the Alesis or via a computer.
You could buy a CD-RW for the data disc. Use once and erase and re-use...
__________________
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
- Dr. Hunter S. Thompson (1937-2005)
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #36  
Old 2013-02-04, 06:32 AM
GRC's Avatar
GRC GRC is online now
Trader since 1980
1.86 TB/1.37 TB/0.73
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Re: Unecessary cdr step in transfers of recording with known and unknown lineage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audioarchivist View Post
You could buy a CD-RW for the data disc. Use once and erase and re-use...
There's a thought.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Ban Unknown Analog Lineage and Remasters! - Spider_Web Site Announcements & Suggestions 35 2009-09-20 02:18 PM
seeding unknown lineage - rosc2112 Technobabble 2 2008-01-11 12:36 PM
help with a show of unknown lineage - rhinowing Lossy or Lossless? 6 2007-12-19 01:05 AM
Recording Lineage - rollenran Technobabble 2 2007-10-11 04:02 PM
Newbie needs step by step for uploading a master audio. - analog414 Technobabble 1 2006-09-04 04:23 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts