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  #16  
Old 2011-07-18, 02:26 PM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

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Originally Posted by weedwacker View Post
I love how people throw around the term remaster without any regard for it actually means. If I record something (audio wise that is) what is initially recorded on the master analog or digital is a raw recording. It has to be mastered first before it can be remastered. If I put it up here and specifically say it is raw then any Tom, Dick or Harry can master it anyway they want it to sound and you by your own rules have to allow it because it is not a remaster but technically a mastered copy. On top of that 27 different people can take that raw recording and master it 27 different ways and you'd have to allow them all because they are all unique masterings.
Thanks for putting up the masters I sent to you on another site.

I can't wait to see how long before someone scarfs up something of mine and runs over here to put it up............ and how long before this new rule goes right out of the window.



Or watch and see just how long it STAYS up.... probably just long enough for certain mods to let their pals suck it down ......
















Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR.oner View Post
yada yada yada...

so no, we will not be allowing the 27 various mixes...the whole point is if a raw or old recording is gonna be messed with by some random user to "make it better" [to their ears on their listening set up], fine but it shouldn't be spread around...cuz of the hundreds of folks out there "remastering" these recordings, there are only a small handful who have the knowledge and gear to properly mix said recordings
So, since you have NO idea what I did to a master recording BEFORE sending it out, and since Mister Weedwacker only has what I sent him to work from.... then by your own rules, my new releases are not allowed here.

That suits me just fine.

Keep on with your Silver BOOTLEG and "Source: ZERO" garbage.

And enjoy the George Harrison 11/26/74 silver bootleg with the false lineage and whatever UMTEENTH Led Zeppelin recordings that are passed off as "master recordings" that certain ABT mods are so fond of........
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Last edited by freezer; 2011-07-18 at 02:36 PM.
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  #17  
Old 2011-07-18, 03:10 PM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

bye bye then
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  #18  
Old 2011-07-18, 07:47 PM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

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Originally Posted by freezer View Post
Keep on with your Silver BOOTLEG and "Source: ZERO" garbage.
that's my garbage, not aaron's


you're slipping


oh, and it's in the FAQ... I am glad, though, that my attempt to rephrase the lineage rules we go by concerning silvers has given you hundreds of posts worth of entertainment.


That is why I come here... to entertain you
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  #19  
Old 2011-08-08, 01:03 PM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

banning terrible remasters is a great idea ......doesn't matter if it's done by someone downloading a raw recording and then butchering it (and then uploading it), or if it's an owner of an uncirculated show ruining something before uploading it.....tasteless, heavy handed post processing just sucks.

do the 'little tweaks' that would be allowed include watermarks? can the owner of uncirculated shows superimpose whatever public domain sounds he wants over the music in post, or does this ban reverse the watermarks decision of just last fall?
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  #20  
Old 2011-08-08, 03:24 PM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

if a taper wants to do some sorta post- work on his/her own recording then by all means, thats their prerogative...personally, i usually seed my recordings raw, and then possibly seed out a "mastered version" down the line, if/when i decide to dedicate the time to do any post work to it [clearly labeled as such]...i encourage other tapers to do the same, but its really up to them whether to seed out raw transfers or not


this rule is more to keep this new wave of hurbs now involved in the hobby who *think* they know what they're doing cuz they got a copy Cool Edit or Pro Tools LE or whatever, read some stuff on the interwebs, can push a few buttons, and all of a sudden they're an audio engineer...as you'd expect:

1. 99.9999% of em aren't tapers
2. they have absolutely no real knowledge of audio post production, nor the proper tools to do a proper job
3. they d/l the shows from here or whatever tracker, and 2 days later re-up their "remaster"
4. they almost never include any of the details of what they did in post, other than "it sounds way better now brah"
5. they almost never include the original tapers info, but always plaster their own name all over it like Donald Trump on a casino

despite their usual delusions of grandeur, that shit just muddies up trading pool and isn't welcome here any longer



also, you'll note we will make some exceptions on a case by case basis [think folks like the Harvested team or certain other individuals who are well known to be audio professionals and know what they're doing ]
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  #21  
Old 2011-08-08, 04:40 PM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

it can be hard to determine who taped what, especially from years past, which is why I used 'owner'. surely you can imagine a scenario where someone inherits a box of uncirced tapes, claims he taped it, then proceeds to do as he pleases, and then refuses to share anything but his brickwalled/watermarked reworking of the raw transfer that he did.

don't get me wrong, this is a nice new rule. it prevents muddying of the trade pool, and makes searching for the best sounding remaster or raw version much easier. but it only prevents the much less annoying bedroom remasterer (who obtains his commonly-circulating shows by downloading or trade) from circulating his version. i can just ignore his remaster, and download the raw version. however, if the owner of uncirced shows (whether it's a taper/transferrer/editor/author/remasterer/vandal or some combination thereof) botches up a bunch of shows and never shares a "tastefully massaged" or raw version, that's all you get.

the site's mission is either quality or it isn't. if it's all about the will of the owner of the show to do whatever he wants, then quality is taking a back seat. I understand that you'd rather have a multiband compressed/limited show circulate than none at all. but why doesn't this apply to mp3 then as well? wouldn't you rather have a 320k or VO mp3 encoding of a show than none at all? a high bitrate mp3 of a raw transfer would mop the floor with a multiband compressed, 0.100 db of total dynamic range, & watermarked lossless version. most if not all can't tell a high bitrate mp3 from lossless in a double blind test, yet everyone can hear the difference between a raw version and a bad remaster. quality should not only be defined by lack of lossy data compression, quality should be defined by skillful or no post processing, especially since post processing can have an even greater detrimental effect on sound quality than lossy data compression. a little long winded, but you wanted discussion and opinions....i don't have delusions that this post will solve or change anything.
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  #22  
Old 2011-08-09, 07:53 AM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

agree completely, but it'd be pretty much impossible to police to the full extent...take yer "owner of old uncirculated cassettes" scenario -- who's to say what he/she did to the transfers IF he/she doesn't divulge the information...for all we would know, thats how the cassette sounds raw...sure there's obvious giveaways when it comes to really heavy handed processing, but other things are not quite so easy to spot, especially when yer dealing with the number of recordings u/l'ed at this site and the time it would take for our mods to go through ever second of every recording seeded...keep in mind, we're unpaid folks with real lives/jobs/families/etc, not forensic audio specialists making $2K per hour of analyzed audio -- get my drift when i say its impossible to police completely?

i'll leave it up to the ABT mods to clarify further, but i'm guessing anything thats been obviously messed with will be called out and pulled

we do strive for quality here, and although it'll never reach the level some of us would like to see, i think it far exceeds most other trackers of our size and diversity of content...and we have continued to update our standards as time and technology allows...at least we're weeding out some of the mud, right? appreciate yer input
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  #23  
Old 2011-08-09, 07:56 AM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

We're not detectives. We apply the rules with a good faith effort. If someone is bound and determine the skirt them somehow, they probably will.
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  #24  
Old 2011-08-11, 05:06 PM
suprden suprden is offline
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

I appreciate your efforts on running a quality site. no, I'd never suggest going through every second of every show, but if it's listed in the lineage or is obvious, in the pursuit of quality a raw version could be requested. I'm sure most of us have come across shows which have been noise reduced with that shitty CEP NR which leaves all kinds of artifacts (and we've never been able to find better), or shows which have been bricked to boring flatness....and in many cases the owners have every intention to improve the show, but they lack training.

Maybe it came off as though I was asking you to weed out every possible application of bad post-processing, but that wasn't my intention. All too often on these sites, we've seen an elitism from staff and others with regards to post-processing, and vehement defense of an owner to post-process however he sees fit and circulate a clearly inferior version. If someone begs to differ with an owner's choice of post-processing, they're told that they are making outlandish, ridiculous demands of the owner, and being unappreciative, and daring to question someone else's generosity. if they don't like it, make their own, mind their own business, don't download it blah, blah blah. but it's good to see that the tide is turning.
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  #25  
Old 2011-08-11, 08:50 PM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

We fucking discourage digital NR, period. With malice and great prejudice. Know that.


As far as 320k MP3 sounding ok, sure they do. The problem comes when someone tries to encode them to some other lossy format to fit their needs. You can do that with a lossless file and it sounds fine for portable usage. Do it with a 320k MP3 and it sounds like glass being juggled underwater.
We don't like aliasing artifacts, so we don't allow MP3 at TTD. Four million other sites do.
MP3 is outside the scope of this thread, though.


What we are basically saying, is we will pull a shitty "remaster" if we determine the remaster to be shitty. Our criteria for "remasters" is subjective and inconsistent as hell, so if you don't want to subject your killer EQ job to our wishy-washy merit judgement, simply seed the thing without "remastering" it

Seeding raw (or mostly raw) sources is more along the lines of what TTD is here for... So - if you have a super kick ass tape of some show that Bertha remastered and you think it's awesome, seed it. See what happens. if you don't want to worry about what we'll think, seed the source, as unmolested as possible.
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  #26  
Old 2011-08-11, 11:56 PM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
We fucking discourage digital NR, period. With malice and great prejudice. Know that.


As far as 320k MP3 sounding ok, sure they do. The problem comes when someone tries to encode them to some other lossy format to fit their needs. You can do that with a lossless file and it sounds fine for portable usage. Do it with a 320k MP3 and it sounds like glass being juggled underwater.
We don't like aliasing artifacts, so we don't allow MP3 at TTD. Four million other sites do.
MP3 is outside the scope of this thread, though.


What we are basically saying, is we will pull a shitty "remaster" if we determine the remaster to be shitty. Our criteria for "remasters" is subjective and inconsistent as hell, so if you don't want to subject your killer EQ job to our wishy-washy merit judgement, simply seed the thing without "remastering" it

Seeding raw (or mostly raw) sources is more along the lines of what TTD is here for... So - if you have a super kick ass tape of some show that Bertha remastered and you think it's awesome, seed it. See what happens. if you don't want to worry about what we'll think, seed the source, as unmolested as possible.

Tell him what you really think J.
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Last edited by tonebloke; 2011-08-11 at 11:57 PM. Reason: Spelling.
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  #27  
Old 2011-08-12, 10:29 AM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
What we are basically saying, is we will pull a shitty "remaster" if we determine the remaster to be shitty. Our criteria for "remasters" is subjective and inconsistent as hell, so if you don't want to subject your killer EQ job to our wishy-washy merit judgement, simply seed the thing without "remastering" it
I want to quote this for truth. The only thing for sure about this rule is that hardly anyone will ever agree with what we decide because it is so subjective. It's not like the MD rule or no siver > CDR rule. That's why it took so long for us to finally implement it.

However, it's in the spirit of what the site is about and we're going to do are darndest to enforce it as well as we can. Like it or not.
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  #28  
Old 2011-08-12, 10:44 AM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

you mods and yer quality entitlement issues









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  #29  
Old 2011-08-12, 03:37 PM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

great idea !...

Thanks be to The Traders den !!!

and Tapers in General !!!

:-)

TGIF TOO ! !

><///'>

</////////% ~~ ~ ~
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  #30  
Old 2011-08-12, 04:55 PM
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Re: New audio torrent rule, no remasters unless by specific permission

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
So - if you have a super kick ass tape of some show that Bertha remastered and you think it's awesome, seed it. See what happens. if you don't want to worry about what we'll think, seed the source, as unmolested as possible.
Better yet, PM the mods & ask. Rather than take the "let me see how long I can seed this out before it's pulled" approach so prevalent at some sites.

Although I'm pretty sure a Bertha remaster will get a pass.
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