The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble
 

Notices

Technobabble Post your general Need for Help questions here.
• Lossy or Lossless?
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2010-04-19, 10:11 AM
speeble speeble is offline
249.90 MB/62.41 MB/0.25
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

I've just recently started back into the live music world and I'm curious why FLAC shows aren't normally tagged? I mean, I understand that once they've been seeded changing tags will invalidate your files, but why aren't the files properly tagged in the first place?

I'd rather have tags that don't necessarily fit my preference than no tags, know what I mean?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2010-04-19, 09:06 PM
rspencer's Avatar
rspencer rspencer is offline
TTD Hoarder
TTD Staff
262.05 GB/271.31 GB/1.04
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: the outer limits
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

I don't tag.

And I'm not going to.

I taped it. I edited it. I seeded it.

Feel free to tag it.
__________________
My main list .... My masters

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
Sometimes im dense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
I hate not being a real man.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2010-04-19, 09:10 PM
paddington's Avatar
paddington paddington is offline
please look after this bear
TTD Staff
83.17 GB/882.10 GB/10.61
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Arrow Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speeble View Post
I've just recently started back into the live music world and I'm curious why FLAC shows aren't normally tagged? I mean, I understand that once they've been seeded changing tags will invalidate your files, but why aren't the files properly tagged in the first place?

I'd rather have tags that don't necessarily fit my preference than no tags, know what I mean?

Note - this is why we require ST5 (FFP) checksums at TTD. They are generated from the decompressed WAV audio, only. Changing the FLAC tag will not cause the checksum to fail, in this case.

It WILL fail if you use MD5, as MD5 hashes the entire file, including tags, art, headers, etc - which is why we do not allow MD5 for audio torrents.

more info about this can be found in my sig.



I always tag my FLACs when I seed. There are several software programs that will auto-tag based on file names and wildcards, which makes it very quick. I recommend doing it, but we will not likely ever require it here at TTD.
__________________
"There are some of these recordings where it is just a whirring, and you cannot hear the music. " - Jimmy Page, 2007 / JUL / 26
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2010-04-19, 10:09 PM
speeble speeble is offline
249.90 MB/62.41 MB/0.25
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
Note - this is why we require ST5 (FFP) checksums at TTD. They are generated from the decompressed WAV audio, only. Changing the FLAC tag will not cause the checksum to fail, in this case.

It WILL fail if you use MD5, as MD5 hashes the entire file, including tags, art, headers, etc - which is why we do not allow MD5 for audio torrents.

more info about this can be found in my sig.
I may very well be missing something because I'll admit to not totally understanding BT technology, but regardless of the checksum required here, if I download a torrent and re-tag the files, I won't be able to seed those files any longer, right?

rspencer: I thank you and everyone else for all that you do. But don't you keep the files for your own use as well? I would think that would be enough reason to tag them. And I'm not trying to argue the point with you, just honest curiosity.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2010-04-19, 10:36 PM
paddington's Avatar
paddington paddington is offline
please look after this bear
TTD Staff
83.17 GB/882.10 GB/10.61
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

The specific .torrent (whole thing, on the tracker) will no longer allow your files to hash out to become a seeder, no - because the files cannot change at all and still match the torrent's master checksum.

However, the ST5 (FFP) hashes for each audio file will check just fine as long as you do not change the audio.

The purpose is to be sure the audio is the same from version to version (and hasn't been tampered with).
__________________
"There are some of these recordings where it is just a whirring, and you cannot hear the music. " - Jimmy Page, 2007 / JUL / 26
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2010-04-19, 10:36 PM
rspencer's Avatar
rspencer rspencer is offline
TTD Hoarder
TTD Staff
262.05 GB/271.31 GB/1.04
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: the outer limits
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speeble View Post
rspencer: I thank you and everyone else for all that you do. But don't you keep the files for your own use as well? I would think that would be enough reason to tag them. And I'm not trying to argue the point with you, just honest curiosity.
Just depends on your playback method, I suppose.

I usually just play on my PC, or stereo via my PC, or burn a CDR for the car.

And I tend to just play a show as a whole. Should I want a particular song, I just check the text file. No biggie.

Tags aren't of much use to me, so I don't spend the time to tag.
__________________
My main list .... My masters

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
Sometimes im dense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
I hate not being a real man.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2010-04-19, 11:28 PM
speeble speeble is offline
249.90 MB/62.41 MB/0.25
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

Fair enough.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2010-04-27, 10:13 AM
Toadinohio's Avatar
Toadinohio Toadinohio is offline
159.08 GB/668.12 GB/4.20
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

I'm with rspencer on this-
It takes a lot of time and effort to set up, tape, take down, transfer, split tracks, and then convert to FLAC.
Then make a text file (sometimes painstakingly track down a setlist if you are not familiar with the artist enough) , make a torrent, then upload it.
By the time I've done all that, the last thing I want to do is add another step.

Also add in the fact that I don't care about tagging, for many of the same reasons rspencer mentioned, and that some people have different tagging preferences-
it's just too much!

I don't care what you do with the files after that- as long as you seed back (or share in some way), don't sell it, and only convert to lossy for personal use.
And even that is out of my control.


Although I was talking to another taper friend of mine-
he suggested we should find another person to do the transfers/conversions/tagging since we are getting backed up with shows and they are not getting out in a timely fashion (if at all!)
So we may be looking for volunteer(s) in the future-
and the chance of the files being tagged will probably go up.
__________________
Toad and The Licks on MySpace
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2010-04-28, 08:37 PM
rspencer's Avatar
rspencer rspencer is offline
TTD Hoarder
TTD Staff
262.05 GB/271.31 GB/1.04
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: the outer limits
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadinohio View Post
I'm with rspencer on this-
It takes a lot of time and effort to set up, tape, take down, transfer, split tracks, and then convert to FLAC.
Then make a text file (sometimes painstakingly track down a setlist if you are not familiar with the artist enough) , make a torrent, then upload it.
By the time I've done all that, the last thing I want to do is add another step.
That can be such a PITA sometimes, especially if there are a bunch of instrumentals. Man, I've spent hours scouring the 'net for samples, blogs, etc. to try to ID instrumental songs before.

And that also affects the tagging. So many shows get posted without setlists or with incorrect setlists, so you can end up with incorrect tags.
__________________
My main list .... My masters

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
Sometimes im dense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
I hate not being a real man.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2010-04-29, 03:04 AM
dcbullet's Avatar
dcbullet dcbullet is online now
Anti-Temperance League
TTD Staff
68.39 GB/422.37 GB/6.18
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

I've started tagging my flac files for the shows I seed. Takes about 5 minutes. I think it is a good practice. You can put lots of info into those tags I've discovered!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #11  
Old 2010-04-29, 06:54 AM
tonebloke's Avatar
tonebloke tonebloke is offline
491.13 GB/783.96 GB/1.60
 
Join Date: May 2009
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

Can one of the knowledgeable please explain exactly what this "tagging" is. Is it the filling of info IE: title, artist, location; etc onto the flac file.
__________________
" Your tin cup and string "recorder" is worse than a Zoom, which is saying a lot".
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #12  
Old 2010-04-29, 08:24 AM
AAR.oner's Avatar
AAR.oner AAR.oner is offline
TTD Staff
1.11 TB/1.41 TB/1.27
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Appalachia
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

flac tags are info embedded in the file that contain artist, title, year, song name, etc etc
__________________
TTD's Gear Lust Forum -- info & reviews on taping gear
The Basics of EQing
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #13  
Old 2010-04-29, 09:04 AM
GhostInTheMachine's Avatar
GhostInTheMachine GhostInTheMachine is offline
817.37 MB/2.86 GB/3.58
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

all modern playback devices need tags - examples (*note: the first example is tagged with band name only)
nottagged.png

tagged.png
display is from main stereo system ( HTPC )
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #14  
Old 2010-04-30, 12:04 AM
freezer's Avatar
freezer freezer is offline
TTD VIP
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in your worst nightmare
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
I've started tagging my flac files for the shows I seed. Takes about 5 minutes. I think it is a good practice. You can put lots of info into those tags I've discovered!
So what happens when someone seeds a show and the tags are loaded with misinformation, speculation, and garbage info?

Does someone on staff rectify the info OR is it just TTD policy to keep the bad information and let the show/set continue to be passed along as is.

I've seen recordings I made years ago turn up at this site with incredible amounts of bogus information, and I've always wondered about this.

Honestly -- Why are torrents allowed at TTD with misinformation in the tags?


This is a serious question; I really don't understand why a show isn't removed immediately when the seeder passes along bogus information in the description and / or tags?

Wouldn't it be easier to pull the show until the right information has been ascertained and the "mistakes" corrected?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #15  
Old 2010-04-30, 05:08 AM
LZJoker LZJoker is offline
87.01 GB/212.20 GB/2.44
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

Isn't it usually just dates and the artist/song name in tags rather than lineage?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Looking foe GNīR 2006 US Shows & new VR Shows - coma76 Snail Mail Trading 4 2013-05-27 11:26 PM
ISO:Police 2007 Shows (Flac) - wayne ISO - In Search Of... 0 2007-09-30 09:52 AM
U2 SHN/FLAC shows available for b&p - peppermint71 B&P Offers 0 2006-03-23 11:02 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts