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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2008-07-21, 05:47 PM
Mr Headbanger Mr Headbanger is offline
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Mini Disc source problem...

Here's how I recorded and transfered a show:

Code:
>SONY ECM-DS70P MIC
>SONY MZ-N710 MD (LP4)
>SONY MZ-N710 MD HEADPHONES OUT
>JACK-JACK CABLE
>PC LINE IN
>COOL EDIT PRO 2 RECORDING MODE (SETTINGS: Sample Rate - 44100; Channels - Stereo; Resolution - 16-bit)
>.wav
>TRACK SPLITTING with CD Wave Editor
>ENCODING TO .flac with Trader's Little Helper (Encoding Options: Level - 8)
... and here's the analysis of the .wav file

Is this lossless?
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  #2  
Old 2008-07-21, 06:38 PM
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Re: Mini Disc source problem...

The only "lossless" recordings are the ones made on a HI-MD in the "linear PCM" recording mode. "Lossless" refers to the actual recording method not the transfer. Anything other type of MD deck (not HI-MD) cannot make a non-compressed (to some degree) recording.
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  #3  
Old 2008-07-21, 06:48 PM
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Re: Mini Disc source problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Headbanger View Post
Here's how I recorded and transfered a show:

Code:
>SONY ECM-DS70P MIC
>SONY MZ-N710 MD (LP4)
>SONY MZ-N710 MD HEADPHONES OUT
>JACK-JACK CABLE
>PC LINE IN
>COOL EDIT PRO 2 RECORDING MODE (SETTINGS: Sample Rate - 44100; Channels - Stereo; Resolution - 16-bit)
>.wav
>TRACK SPLITTING with CD Wave Editor
>ENCODING TO .flac with Trader's Little Helper (Encoding Options: Level - 8)
... and here's the analysis of the .wav file

Is this lossless?
the freq analysis doesn't tell us much... can you go back and do a spectral analysis (do about a 2-3 second span in the window). Then post that.
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  #4  
Old 2008-07-21, 07:16 PM
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Re: Mini Disc source problem...

Well if you recorded it with a SONY MZ-N710, it's going to be "lossy" no matter what.
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  #5  
Old 2008-07-21, 08:33 PM
ameyer17 ameyer17 is offline
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Re: Mini Disc source problem...

If it was recorded before January 1, 2008, it'd still be allowed here (if I remember the seeding policy correctly)
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  #6  
Old 2008-07-21, 09:38 PM
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Re: Mini Disc source problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ameyer17 View Post
If it was recorded before January 1, 2008, it'd still be allowed here (if I remember the seeding policy correctly)
yes, that is correct
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  #7  
Old 2008-07-22, 04:34 AM
Mr Headbanger Mr Headbanger is offline
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Re: Mini Disc source problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
the freq analysis doesn't tell us much... can you go back and do a spectral analysis (do about a 2-3 second span in the window). Then post that.
Well, the posts above kinda let me down But here's the spectral analysis if it's needed.

I have a question then. If this isn't "real lossless" I'd like to know if this transfer has the best possible quality? Is there a quality loss between the .wav file and the original MD recording?
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  #8  
Old 2008-07-22, 03:04 PM
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Re: Mini Disc source problem...

well, your md recorder (like all of the older ones) can only record in lossy, its a codec called atrac and its just like mp3.

as for getting the best transfer of this show, see if there's a 'line out' jack, or if not maybe there is a setting in the menus to change the headphone out to a 'line out' (I have this on my MZ-NH1). I don't think you can do a direct usb dump unfortunately but you could ask over in the forums at minidisc.org, somebody will know if this is possible with your model.

you don't mention your soundcard, so I'm guessing you need to get something better quality. the ones built into computers are pretty much garbage, as bad as it gets. grab an m-audio audiophile2496 (about $120) or similar to up your quality (also improves playback sound and supports 24bit).

if you're still stuck with the headphone jack, you might consider fixing the massive dc offset problem (effects>amplitude>amplify>center wave preset), apply it to the entire show as one large wav and listen to it against the original to make sure it is helping. or borrow a friend's MD unit that has the proper 'line out' and this together with a quality sound card will give the biggest improvement in transfer quality.

also consider getting a lossless recorder! its really worth it, sound is much better.
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  #9  
Old 2008-07-23, 12:32 AM
ameyer17 ameyer17 is offline
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Re: Mini Disc source problem...

I think it's possible to do a digital transfer via optical with some MD decks.
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  #10  
Old 2008-07-23, 04:20 AM
Mr Headbanger Mr Headbanger is offline
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Re: Mini Disc source problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five View Post
well, your md recorder (like all of the older ones) can only record in lossy, its a codec called atrac and its just like mp3.

as for getting the best transfer of this show, see if there's a 'line out' jack, or if not maybe there is a setting in the menus to change the headphone out to a 'line out' (I have this on my MZ-NH1). I don't think you can do a direct usb dump unfortunately but you could ask over in the forums at minidisc.org, somebody will know if this is possible with your model.

you don't mention your soundcard, so I'm guessing you need to get something better quality. the ones built into computers are pretty much garbage, as bad as it gets. grab an m-audio audiophile2496 (about $120) or similar to up your quality (also improves playback sound and supports 24bit).

if you're still stuck with the headphone jack, you might consider fixing the massive dc offset problem (effects>amplitude>amplify>center wave preset), apply it to the entire show as one large wav and listen to it against the original to make sure it is helping. or borrow a friend's MD unit that has the proper 'line out' and this together with a quality sound card will give the biggest improvement in transfer quality.

also consider getting a lossless recorder! its really worth it, sound is much better.
No line out jack, no such setting as you mentioned, USB transfer is only PC>MD, it doesn't work the other way.

The problem could also be the soundcard, because a fellow trader says that he has the same MD model and doesn't have so big "drop-offs".

Either way thanks for your help. It's time to gather some money and buy some new gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ameyer17 View Post
I think it's possible to do a digital transfer via optical with some MD decks.
There's only an optical line in in my model.
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  #11  
Old 2008-11-02, 05:06 PM
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Re: Mini Disc source problem...

I think it IS possible to transfer out through USB, but not with the software given with the unit, at least not without updating the software.
If I remember there was a huge upgrade to it released, and it had atrac > wav conversion and everything...

look into that minidisc.org site again


atrac is NOT "just like mp3", it is better, but not by enough!
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  #12  
Old 2008-11-02, 05:39 PM
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Re: Mini Disc source problem...

yeah I know about that you can get WAV recordings but not ATRAC.
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