The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble
 

Notices

Technobabble Post your general Need for Help questions here.
Lossy or Lossless?
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2008-06-27, 06:57 PM
GRC's Avatar
GRC GRC is offline
Trader since 1980
1.57 TB/1.20 TB/0.76
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scotland
Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

From my analogue sources, I can make what Alesis calls a 'CD24' on the Masterlink ML9600 - a CD with 24-bit, 96kHz files, stored in AIFF format.

The seeding policy for audio requires that the files be flac, shn or ape. I tried Audacity to convert AIFF to FLAC, but failed. From my point of view, it would be so much easier to merely upload the AIFF files......

Other than the policy, is there any reason why AIFFs couldn't be torrented?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2008-06-27, 08:02 PM
pawel's Avatar
pawel pawel is offline
Lockout here
298.43 GB/623.01 GB/2.09
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Poland
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRC View Post
Other than the policy, is there any reason why AIFFs couldn't be torrented?
size
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2008-06-27, 09:18 PM
direwolf-pgh's Avatar
direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
656.92 GB/1.29 TB/2.01
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: down in the basement
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

some banter on this 'CD24' format
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=22395

http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/1999/ML9600.html

AIFF is to Apple as WAV is to PC ..that product seems more a computer reading/writing standard data file CD's

hook your PC up to your stereo with a $100 sound card & play all the 96/24 files you wish
-cause once you burn a 'CD24' disc..its not playing back in any other device other than a computer.

http://www.nextag.com/ALESIS-MasterL...09/prices-html.. $800 - pass.

Last edited by direwolf-pgh; 2008-06-27 at 09:26 PM.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2008-06-27, 10:46 PM
jameskg's Avatar
jameskg jameskg is offline
audio moderator
TTD Staff
83.16 GB/882.03 GB/10.61
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: USA
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

AIFF = uncompressed digital audio like WAV. If there are some new flavors, it is still not ubiquitous, like FLAC.

Also, most people can't do anything with it. You could upload it, but hardly anyone would get anything out of it. Especially at 24bit, it's going to be rather useless since everyone's devices (CD players, iPods, etc) play 16bit audio.

Yes, there are exceptions, no they aren't common. The goal here is for as many people as possible to be able to enjoy the things that are offered here and FLAC>WAV>BURN or FLAC>WAV>MP3 is what nearly everyone can do, with either MACs or with PCs.

I don't really have an objection to AIFF files being shared here, personally, but I think the torrent would need to state exactly what they are and what has to be done to burn to a CD to play in a common player - as that is our standard end-game goal, here. I think you'll find that most people won't go through the trouble to convert it to something they can use.
__________________
"There are some of these recordings where it is just a whirring, and you cannot hear the music. " - Jimmy Page, 2007 / JUL / 26
Firewall Help: your router | windows XP | more
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2008-06-28, 02:38 AM
roomful
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

All you need to convert .aiff to FLAC in Windows is Foobar2000 and FLAC v1.2.0 or newer (which can be found in TLH).

Uninstall Foobar2000 and TLH, then install the latest versions of Foobar2000 and Trader's Little Helper.
http://www.foobar2000.org/
http://tlh.easytree.org/

Drag your .aiff files into Foobar2000, select all, then right click > convert > convert to > FLAC (you can adjust the level with the '...' button > save. Done! The first time you do this Foobar may ask you for the location of the flac.exe file, it's usually in C:\Program Files > Trader's Little Helper > CmdlineApps.

I just tested it. I had a 24/96 FLAC file > dragged into Foobar2000 > converted to .aiff. Then I dragged the .aiff into Foobar2000 > converted back to FLAC > saved to a different location. The FLAC fingerprints matched!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2008-06-28, 03:20 AM
roomful
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

The only thing is, if you do a lot of transfers @ 24/96, it's going to eat up a LOT of CD-Rs and burning time. Stereo 24/96 is 34.56 MB/minute, or a little more than 20 minutes of audio per CD-R. One hour show= minimum 3 CD-Rs, likely 4 depending on song tracking.

Another option: you could get a bit accurate sound card, like an M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 or something, and Soundforge or the free prog CD-Wave (audio editing software to record the signal), and digitally transfer from the Alesis to your comp via a coax cable, and save on media costs and burning time, and still use the AD converters of the Alesis for analog transfers.

Last edited by roomful; 2008-06-28 at 03:27 AM.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2008-06-28, 08:29 AM
pawel's Avatar
pawel pawel is offline
Lockout here
298.43 GB/623.01 GB/2.09
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Poland
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

You forgot to mention DVD-A, lol
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2008-06-28, 04:00 PM
GRC's Avatar
GRC GRC is offline
Trader since 1980
1.57 TB/1.20 TB/0.76
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scotland
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawel View Post
You forgot to mention DVD-A, lol
Who forgot?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2008-06-28, 04:01 PM
GRC's Avatar
GRC GRC is offline
Trader since 1980
1.57 TB/1.20 TB/0.76
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scotland
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRC View Post
Other than the policy, is there any reason why AIFFs couldn't be torrented?
size
...and the comparative size between a 24-bit 96kHz AIFF and a FLAC derived from it would be....?

Regards, Graham
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2008-06-28, 04:11 PM
jameskg's Avatar
jameskg jameskg is offline
audio moderator
TTD Staff
83.16 GB/882.03 GB/10.61
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: USA
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

.. about the same as the comparative size between a 24-bit 96kHz WAV file and a FLAC derived from it.

We don't allow WAV because they are too big. They must be FLAC'd. Some people can make use of both WAVs & AIFF files for burning to disc. Most can't and need the PCM audio data to have the WAV headers to work with their software.

What is your chief reason for wanting to distribute PCM audio data with AIFF headers instead of WAV headers, when more people can make use of the WAV format?
__________________
"There are some of these recordings where it is just a whirring, and you cannot hear the music. " - Jimmy Page, 2007 / JUL / 26
Firewall Help: your router | windows XP | more
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #11  
Old 2008-06-28, 04:11 PM
GRC's Avatar
GRC GRC is offline
Trader since 1980
1.57 TB/1.20 TB/0.76
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scotland
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
some banter on this 'CD24' format
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=22395

http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/1999/ML9600.html

AIFF is to Apple as WAV is to PC ..that product seems more a computer reading/writing standard data file CD's

hook your PC up to your stereo with a $100 sound card & play all the 96/24 files you wish
-cause once you burn a 'CD24' disc..its not playing back in any other device other than a computer.

http://www.nextag.com/ALESIS-MasterL...09/prices-html.. $800 - pass.
They'll play back on the Masterlink as well as a computer.

The reason I ask is that some people are asking me in PMs for 24-bit copies of some of my torrents - so they apparently have a use for them, whatever it might be.

800 bucks for a Masterlink in the US equates to about 400 UK pounds - which in my book is a BARGAIN - I paid 699 UK pounds for mine a couple of years ago. If I could get one over here for that money I'd buy another in a heartbeat.

It's not about ME 'hooking the PC up to the stereo' and playing the 24-bits here, as I can just plug the Masterlink into the stereo and play them on that - it's about how to get them to other people who are asking for them; I can make 16-bit, 44.1kHz torrents easily, but Audacity doesn't want to co-operate with making 24-bit flacs, and ideally I'd like to shortcut the process and get the AIFFs direct to the people who ask for them.

At the end of the day, I could burn the CD24s and mail them out, but if I can do it more efficiently by torrenting them................

Regards, Graham
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #12  
Old 2008-06-28, 04:16 PM
GRC's Avatar
GRC GRC is offline
Trader since 1980
1.57 TB/1.20 TB/0.76
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scotland
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roomful View Post
The only thing is, if you do a lot of transfers @ 24/96, it's going to eat up a LOT of CD-Rs and burning time. Stereo 24/96 is 34.56 MB/minute, or a little more than 20 minutes of audio per CD-R. One hour show= minimum 3 CD-Rs, likely 4 depending on song tracking.

Another option: you could get a bit accurate sound card, like an M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 or something, and Soundforge or the free prog CD-Wave (audio editing software to record the signal), and digitally transfer from the Alesis to your comp via a coax cable, and save on media costs and burning time, and still use the AD converters of the Alesis for analog transfers.
Tell me about it - I archived a few shows to 24-bit a while back, and it was EATING CDs.

If I'm going to make a 24-bit transfer for torrenting, I'll want to keep an archive copy for myself, and that means burning it to CD to put on the shelf.

Regards, Graham
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #13  
Old 2008-06-28, 04:17 PM
jameskg's Avatar
jameskg jameskg is offline
audio moderator
TTD Staff
83.16 GB/882.03 GB/10.61
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: USA
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRC View Post
I can make 16-bit, 44.1kHz torrents easily, but Audacity doesn't want to co-operate with making 24-bit flacs, and ideally I'd like to shortcut the process and get the AIFFs direct to the people who ask for them.

At the end of the day, I could burn the CD24s and mail them out, but if I can do it more efficiently by torrenting them................

Regards, Graham

We allow for 24bit audio in Flac files. Why not try FLAC fontend to encode them and, do that to distribute, so more people can benefit?
__________________
"There are some of these recordings where it is just a whirring, and you cannot hear the music. " - Jimmy Page, 2007 / JUL / 26
Firewall Help: your router | windows XP | more
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #14  
Old 2008-06-28, 04:22 PM
GRC's Avatar
GRC GRC is offline
Trader since 1980
1.57 TB/1.20 TB/0.76
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scotland
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
What is your chief reason for wanting to distribute PCM audio data with AIFF headers instead of WAV headers, when more people can make use of the WAV format?
Some folks are asking for them, and I'm looking for a way to supply them. The most direct way seemed to be to get the AIFF file to them, since that's what comes directly out of the Masterlink, and which is written to the CD24.

Regards, Graham
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #15  
Old 2008-06-28, 04:25 PM
roomful
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: Can I make a case for AIFF files in the Audio Torrent Forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by roomful View Post
The only thing is, if you do a lot of transfers @ 24/96, it's going to eat up a LOT of CD-Rs and burning time. Stereo 24/96 is 34.56 MB/minute, or a little more than 20 minutes of audio per CD-R. One hour show= minimum 3 CD-Rs, likely 4 depending on song tracking.

Another option: you could get a bit accurate sound card, like an M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 or something, and Soundforge or the free prog CD-Wave (audio editing software to record the signal), and digitally transfer from the Alesis to your comp via a coax cable, and save on media costs and burning time, and still use the AD converters of the Alesis for analog transfers.
Tell me about it - I archived a few shows to 24-bit a while back, and it was EATING CDs.

If I'm going to make a 24-bit transfer for torrenting, I'll want to keep an archive copy for myself, and that means burning it to CD to put on the shelf.

Regards, Graham
You could still archive them to disc using the bolded method. Transfer > track > compress to FLAC & write text file > torrent & archive. I use DVD+R so I can fit lots of shows on one disc in FLAC format. It's much more efficient than burning data CD-Rs. A lot less time spent burning, and all the shows are losslessly compressed.

Archiving uncompressed WAVs or AIFFs to CD-R is about the most inefficient way to archive IMO, no offense.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
ISO Simple and free program to make youtube clips from vob files - alzeppelin Technobabble 3 2009-02-08 06:05 PM
torrent upload is missing files (attempting to re-post older torrent) - cicada Technobabble 3 2007-02-02 02:10 PM
How to make a torrent - bullpinjohn Technobabble 2 2007-01-20 11:10 AM
FLAC files help..need to make audio cd-r - bigwurock Technobabble 6 2005-12-07 02:07 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:23 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts