The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble
 

Notices

Technobabble Post your general Need for Help questions here.
Lossy or Lossless?
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2005-03-22, 09:34 AM
Karst's Avatar
Karst Karst is offline
Utterly Bastard Groovy
70.15 GB/84.94 GB/1.21
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Belfast
.m4a file

Bumped into to this one at a U2 filesharing forum. Not really seen this before so I was wondering what the consensus on this is? Did a search (http://www.m4a.com/) and I'm pretty convinced this is lossy. What does everybody else think?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2005-03-22, 09:49 AM
jraras's Avatar
jraras jraras is offline
71.58 GB/124.20 GB/1.74
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Icon4 Re: .m4a file

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karst
Bumped into to this one at a U2 filesharing forum. Not really seen this before so I was wondering what the consensus on this is? Did a search (http://www.m4a.com/) and I'm pretty convinced this is lossy. What does everybody else think?
Definitely lossy... another name for it (used by Apple) is "AAC", the preferred file format of iPod/iTunes. I like it for my pod, but definitely not for my archives/torrents/collection.

HTH!

Jim
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2005-03-22, 01:43 PM
ffooky ffooky is offline
10.91 GB/10.56 GB/0.97
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: .m4a file

Stupidly, the .m4a extension is used for both AAC and ALAC (Apple Lossless) so the quickest way to tell one from t'other is filesize. You need iTunes to play the ALAC variety though you can decompress them usingthis if you don't want to install iTunes.
__________________
Two tracks for a desert island:

Black Keys - I Got Mine
Tintern Abbey - Vacuum Cleaner
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2005-03-22, 01:54 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: .m4a file

apple lossless
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2005-03-22, 03:15 PM
ffooky ffooky is offline
10.91 GB/10.56 GB/0.97
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: .m4a file

Indeed Five but at least one can hold one's nose and convert them to a usable format, much as one has to do with those APE things
__________________
Two tracks for a desert island:

Black Keys - I Got Mine
Tintern Abbey - Vacuum Cleaner
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2005-03-22, 03:27 PM
Punkishlyevil Punkishlyevil is offline
30.63 GB/42.38 GB/1.38
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shorewood, Wisconsin, USA
Re: .m4a file

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
apple lossless
I don't use them, but may I ask, what is wrong with them?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2005-03-22, 04:42 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: .m4a file

I think RainDawg could explain better, but my big issue with apple lossless is that ipod users wanted the ability to play FLAC like some other players had so the kind people at apple invented apple lossless so that now you can play FLAC on an ipod but only if you first convert everything to their brand new proprietary format. At least, this is how I recall it happening. If apple lossless was acutally better they might have a leg to stand on. There's also microsoft lossless which somebody was saying isn't really lossless, I'm not sure if this is true.

I stick with FLAC and APE (yes ffooky, I still use it at home ).
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2005-03-22, 07:27 PM
wazoo2u wazoo2u is offline
82.15 MB/96.22 MB/1.17
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: .m4a file

The basic objection to closed source formats is that they hamper developers efforts to improve/create better software by demanding license fees, even for non-commercial use.

FLAC, SHN and APE are accepted due to their open source status. (tho some are only free if not used commercially).
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2005-03-22, 08:36 PM
willndmb willndmb is offline
TTD VIP
429.05 GB/8.78 TB/20.95
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NY
Re: .m4a file

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
I think RainDawg could explain better, but my big issue with apple lossless is that ipod users wanted the ability to play FLAC like some other players had so the kind people at apple invented apple lossless so that now you can play FLAC on an ipod but only if you first convert everything to their brand new proprietary format. At least, this is how I recall it happening. If apple lossless was acutally better they might have a leg to stand on. There's also microsoft lossless which somebody was saying isn't really lossless, I'm not sure if this is true.

I stick with FLAC and APE (yes ffooky, I still use it at home ).
its better then mp3 for starts--thats why itunes uses it, smaller file with better sound
and the only place i have ever seen or heard of ipod users wanting to play flacs on an ipod is here--the general ipod user doesn't even know about flac

bottom line is the ipod isn't for trading or for audio junkies
its for the normal ear and the person who wants a small walkman with 10000 songs at their fingertip
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2005-03-23, 03:58 AM
h_vargas
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: .m4a file

Quote:
Originally Posted by willndmb
its better then mp3 for starts--thats why itunes uses it, smaller file with better sound
and the only place i have ever seen or heard of ipod users wanting to play flacs on an ipod is here--the general ipod user doesn't even know about flac

bottom line is the ipod isn't for trading or for audio junkies
its for the normal ear and the person who wants a small walkman with 10000 songs at their fingertip

i would have to agree with this, emphasizing the key words "general ipod user."

and i would add to the end "for the normal ear and the person who wants a small walkman with 10000 songs at their fingertip... who can afford apple's pricing."
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #11  
Old 2005-03-23, 05:46 AM
ffooky ffooky is offline
10.91 GB/10.56 GB/0.97
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: .m4a file

Why the discussion of AAC ? The OP was most likely to be talking about ALAC and you ain't going to get 1000 of them on an ipod
__________________
Two tracks for a desert island:

Black Keys - I Got Mine
Tintern Abbey - Vacuum Cleaner
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #12  
Old 2005-03-23, 07:07 AM
Karst's Avatar
Karst Karst is offline
Utterly Bastard Groovy
70.15 GB/84.94 GB/1.21
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Belfast
Re: .m4a file

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffooky
Stupidly, the .m4a extension is used for both AAC and ALAC (Apple Lossless) so the quickest way to tell one from t'other is filesize.
Right. The track plays through itunes. I only downloaded the Intro which is 1:03; size: 0.99 MB (1,044,226 bytes). Let me know what you think.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #13  
Old 2005-03-23, 09:03 AM
jraras's Avatar
jraras jraras is offline
71.58 GB/124.20 GB/1.74
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Re: .m4a file

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karst
Right. The track plays through itunes. I only downloaded the Intro which is 1:03; size: 0.99 MB (1,044,226 bytes). Let me know what you think.
In iTunes what's the bitrate? That should also give a clue... though, I'm not familiar w/ ALAC, so...

JR
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #14  
Old 2005-03-23, 09:15 AM
Karst's Avatar
Karst Karst is offline
Utterly Bastard Groovy
70.15 GB/84.94 GB/1.21
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Belfast
Re: .m4a file

From Get profile in iTunes:
Kind: AAC
Size: 1,019.8k
Bit rate: 128 kbps
Sample rate: 44.100 kHz
Profile: Low Complexity
Channels: Stereo
Encoded with: Helix Producer SDK 10.0 for WIndows, build 10.0.0.240
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #15  
Old 2005-03-23, 09:22 AM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
TTD Staff
467.74 GB/2.01 TB/4.40
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Re: .m4a file

It's an AAC file - similar to an mp3. An ALAC file would have a higher bit rate and be larger in size than what you said.
__________________
Five's Checksums Demystified - everything and anything you want to know about checksums
On a Mac? Get XLD to rip your CDs. Please see this guide - X Lossless Decoder (XLD): How to create flawless CD rips on Mac OS X

Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Cannot copy file: cannot read from the source file or disk - Gaston Technobabble 7 2012-03-15 01:48 PM
what file do i save it to? - Mr. Krinkles Jr. Technobabble 6 2007-01-15 04:21 PM
ape file?? - munchkin Technobabble 6 2006-01-31 03:05 PM
What is the .cue file for - PAIRUSTWO Technobabble 5 2005-09-05 04:38 PM
an .FLA file?!?! - AAR.oner Technobabble 7 2005-02-18 02:01 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:46 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts