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  #1  
Old 2007-11-04, 02:36 PM
xcv111
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Digital FM?

Hello.
Is this still a FM broadcast, thou it was recorded via digibox (digital)? The same show was simultaneously also broadcasted via traditional FM (analog) as well.

The show recorded is via digibox. FM?

All the best,
xcv111

Last edited by xcv111; 2007-11-04 at 04:10 PM.
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  #2  
Old 2007-11-04, 05:35 PM
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Re: Digital FM?

digital broadcasts are lossy, the traditional analog fm probably isn't. digital satellite broadcasts are not allowed to be posted at TTD, but go ahead and tape them anyways.

I'm not sure what your question is or if I've answered it, hope this helps.
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  #3  
Old 2007-11-04, 06:04 PM
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Re: Digital FM?

He's asking about HD Radio broadcasting. Radio stations in the US (and maybe Canada? not sure if the standard has been adopted yet there) are putting "side channels" on the air that carry the normal programing as well as other, more niched programming. The standard is called IBOC (In-Band, On-Channel) broadcasting and the frq range is 20-20kHz of digital audio. It allows for two extra audio bands for every FM analog signal.

Is is not linear, but is is a much higher quality than FM (which is means it's better than satellite radio, too since XM / Sirius' audio compression is worse than Real Audio was over the internet in 1997...)

I'm thinking we should allow IBOC broadcasts as they are about to become extremely common over the next 15 months (you can get HD-Radio signals in over 100 cities now days) and, though it isn't linear, the quality is high - like DVDs aren't linear, but MPEG2 is considered acceptable.
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  #4  
Old 2007-11-04, 06:18 PM
xcv111
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Re: Digital FM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
digital broadcasts are lossy...
The recording in question is not satellite broadcast. The broadcast in question is a cable connection broadcast and recorded via digibox (digital).

When I viewed a spectral view - using Cool Pro 2.0 - it showed even higher frequencies - is that even possible(?) - than a conventional FM broadcast. My conventional analog receiver is Harman/Cardon TU 940 nowadays. So I guess that can't be lossy by any means - in conventional sense anyway. Or can it?

You didn't get my original question? Can this kinda radio cable digibox (digital) recording be named as FM, thou it's not recorded using conventional analog equipment: receiver etc.?

All the best,
xcv111
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  #5  
Old 2007-11-04, 06:42 PM
xcv111
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Re: Digital FM?

OK.
M.I.A. 2007-08-24 Rock en Seine 2007 (16-bit) (FLAC) is right now upped by me. There might be some reference point for you what I'm trying to say.

And once again thank you Jameskg, Five as well. Jameskg, you got it about right, thou my question wasn't is this kinda cable - no satellites etc. transfer involved - broadcast lossy or not.

My question was and still is: can it be named as FM?

Thank you for your replies.

All the the best,
xcv111

BTW. Jameskg. Thanks for some extra information concerning them blessed 100 digital cities etc. Much appreciated.
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  #6  
Old 2007-11-04, 08:42 PM
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Re: Digital FM?

I am almost positive that xcv111 is talking about cable radio or "cable FM". I find these types of recordings are usually taken from high quality feeds and sound pretty good. (IMO, better than FM (much less noise) and digi-sat too.) If someone knows the usual bitrate of cable FM broadcasts, please post. The spectral views of both cable FM recordings I have are very close to spectrals of Dolby Digital audio at 448 kbps. I'm sure it varies from station to station though.
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  #7  
Old 2007-11-05, 04:02 AM
xcv111
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Re: Digital FM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbLuck
I am almost positive that xcv111 is talking about cable radio or "cable FM".
You are right. Cable radio or "cable FM" was the phrase I was looking for. Thanks.

So. FM?
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  #8  
Old 2007-11-05, 05:50 AM
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Re: Digital FM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcv111

So. FM?
no, you should call it what it is - Cable FM...listing it simply as FM will give folks the impression it is Analogue FM

my 2cents -- if you plan on seeding these, i'd research to see what type of codec the particular "station" uses to broadcast, & list it with as much info as possible...in this case, label it as:
Cable FM [codec/bitrate info] > digibox [make model info] > ..............

still not sure if these would be allowed to be seeded here...wouldn't mind seeing more info/SA/FAs on the subject
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  #9  
Old 2007-11-05, 06:35 AM
xcv111
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Re: Digital FM?

Thanks for your answer AAR.oner.
The "station" in this M.I.A. case is Finnish Broadcast Company (YLE) - same kinda station as BBC.

And thanks for the tip to research the codec used. I'm cautiously sure I'll get the information needed from YLE. I'm not at all that familiar with codecs. What kinda codecs TTR approve?

But. Playing it safe, you kinda suggest, it would be safer to record the FM broadcasts using conventional analog tuner, which - btw - is getting its signal via cable?
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  #10  
Old 2007-11-05, 12:54 PM
VonOben VonOben is offline
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Re: Digital FM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcv111
And thanks for the tip to research the codec used. I'm cautiously sure I'll get the information needed from YLE.
If it's from an older (a couple of years) DVB-C system I'd say it's MPEG-1 Audio Layer II (In other words "mp2"). Here in Sweden the bitrate usually is 192kbit/s CBR.
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  #11  
Old 2007-11-05, 01:44 PM
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Re: Digital FM?

We need a new category for Digital Radio.

DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting) is the name given to Digital Radio here in the UK. There's a variety of ways to receive the broadcasts.

First is an aerial and receiver, similar to a traditional FM setup. The broadcasts are on a different frequency band to the FM signals, and obviously you require a dedicated receiver to tune in to them. It's generally accepted that, despite the broadcasters' claims, the quality of these is inferior to regular FM as the bitrates are too low, due to the broadcasters trying to cram lots of stations into the available bandwidth.

Alternatively, they can be received through Satellite and Cable setups; the broadcasting companies made space alongside the TV channels, and these digital radio signals are found in a dedicated menu in the EPG (Electronic Programme Guide). Opinions vary as to whether or not the quality of these signals is equal to, better or worse than the above. This sounds like the equivalent of the 'cable FM' that the original poster referred to.

Lastly, they can be received via the UK's Freeview service - this is primarily a DVB (Digital Video Broadcasting) service, but again, the programmers made space for the radio programmes alongside the TV. Again, opinions vary as to whether or not the quality of these signals is equal to, better or worse than the above.

I've uploaded a couple of torrents in the last category before now; one person protested that one track was lossy, but other than that, the quality seemed to be generally acceptable to all leechers.

Regards, Graham
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  #12  
Old 2007-11-05, 11:21 PM
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Re: Digital FM?

I forgot to mention that there are two different types of cable radio broadcasts too: analog and digital. How they differ in terms of bitrate or codec type, I really don't know. I hope someone posts though with more info...
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  #13  
Old 2007-11-06, 01:10 AM
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Re: Digital FM?

sorry man but this is just another lossy digital broadcast that gets routinely pulled here. it is not the same as a modern analog bbc broadcast, its worse than atrac, at best about the same as 128kbps mp3
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...559#post722559

we're not gonna have a forum for this kind of stuff, its our niche not to host this kind of stuff. post it at another site.

when I was a kid we had our cable split and plugged into the radio back in the 70s and you could get tons of stations really before they invented mp3. we're willing to consider stuff taped using television cable>fm antennae but even that I'm not certain about at this time (I don't have cable at home). stick with the open air analog broadcasts, we're giving carte blanche on those.
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  #14  
Old 2007-11-06, 01:14 AM
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Re: Digital FM?

yeah, I totally misread his question and thought he was talking about DAB, HD-Radio, IBOC - whatever you want to call it. That's something else entirely and I was surprised to see him ask about it since the infrastructure is still largely being built... as it turns out, he's recording from his cable box

my bad, etc
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  #15  
Old 2007-11-06, 01:22 AM
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Re: Digital FM?

no probs man took me a while to catch on, too.
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