The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?
 

Notices

Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2007-10-25, 09:49 AM
RaelEarl RaelEarl is offline
20.77 GB/12.41 GB/0.60
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Lossy or lossless?

Hi,
here's another one I'm unsure of. The beginning of the track looks like mp3 reconverted to wav, right? But the rest makes me think could it be OK?

I got this file along with the others in .ape-format which is said to be lossless.

I've uploaded a sample track here .

Cheers
Attached Images
File Type: jpg camel 1997 first 2 mins.jpg
( 1.80 MB, 20 views)
 
File Type: jpg camel1997 middle.jpg
( 1.96 MB, 16 views)
 
File Type: jpg camel1997 freq.jpg
( 439.3 KB, 12 views)
 
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2007-10-25, 10:49 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Lossy or lossless?

EAC is not reliable for spotting lossy sources (see here) but that having been said doesn't look suspicious. if you can post a rapidshare link here I can take a look & listen on my end.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2007-10-25, 03:11 PM
RaelEarl RaelEarl is offline
20.77 GB/12.41 GB/0.60
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Re: Lossy or lossless?

Didn't quite get the clue on EAC from the thread you linked to. I'm still not familiar with SoundForge functions for the same purposes...

Here is the rapidshare link:

http://rapidshare.com/files/65144876...970319_105.ape

Thank you!!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2007-10-27, 06:37 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Lossy or lossless?

not certain about this one... I would not call it certainly lossy at this point but there's something very very strange going on at the higher frequencies but then there's also noise up to the top (check the b&w pic)

(maybe) high quality lossy>analog>digital??

3rd screencap is from close to the beginning... very peculiar

would love to hear more opinions on this...
Attached Images
File Type: gif camel1997cep_sa1.gif
( 280.4 KB, 10 views)
 
File Type: gif camel1997cep_sa2.gif
( 280.4 KB, 12 views)
 
File Type: gif camel1997cep_sa3.gif
( 298.3 KB, 10 views)
 
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2007-10-27, 08:03 PM
SundayDriver's Avatar
SundayDriver SundayDriver is offline
72826
77.39 GB/133.18 GB/1.72
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: the swamps of Jersey
Re: Lossy or lossless?

I love a good lossy or lossless thread. It's like trying to piece together a crime scene.

Now, I think this one looks lossless. But the high frequencies from 18kHz on up have been compensated some how. The audio has clearly seen some processing, as the levels have been boosted to within 0db, so I think the upper frequencies have been flattened as a result of this. That's the way it looks, but could that be possible? I know hard limiting will do that.

That's my two cents or more like my "best guess".
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2007-10-27, 11:05 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Lossy or lossless?

hey thanks for the input

but I don't think its limiting... I just tried it out, cep hard limiting on the track in question, boosting it 20db with the max amplitude limited to -0.2. crushed the shit out of it. checked the crushed version's spectral, it has the exact same frequency cutoff.

then I tried the same limiter settings on another track that has 'normal' frequency response, and its the same, no effect on the frequency response at all.

I looked at some of the peaks they don't look crushed so I think normalization has been applied here or perhaps limiting as you suggested. but that's not causing the strange cutoff so far as I can tell. still confused about this one
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2007-10-27, 11:22 PM
paddington's Avatar
paddington paddington is offline
please look after this bear
TTD Staff
83.17 GB/882.10 GB/10.61
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Re: Lossy or lossless?

I don't see or hear anything wrong with this other than the flyback noise @ 16kHz. Isn't that stuff at the beginning some sort of synth noise / sfx?
__________________
"There are some of these recordings where it is just a whirring, and you cannot hear the music. " - Jimmy Page, 2007 / JUL / 26
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2007-10-27, 11:40 PM
SundayDriver's Avatar
SundayDriver SundayDriver is offline
72826
77.39 GB/133.18 GB/1.72
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: the swamps of Jersey
Re: Lossy or lossless?

I get it Five, makes sense- thanks for testing. But due to the lack of dyamnic range, I would lean more towards limiting.

Don't know what is causing the weirdness above 18 kHz though either.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Lossy or Lossless? - quadrophenia Lossy or Lossless? 14 2013-10-04 04:49 AM
Lossy or lossless? - ledzep-77 Lossy or Lossless? 2 2008-06-21 10:13 PM
Lossy or Lossless !?!?!?!?!?!? - tonygx30 Lossy or Lossless? 4 2007-10-22 08:22 AM
Lossy or Lossless - Dragonz Lossy or Lossless? 2 2007-07-21 08:42 PM
Lossy or Lossless - alchemy71085 Lossy or Lossless? 3 2005-11-07 09:34 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts