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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #16  
Old 2007-06-25, 02:21 AM
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Audio - Pre-FM Re: 17 KHz stripe in King Biscuit Flower Hour vinyl

In my case, yes the stripe does come from KBFH.
Here's some more screens that show the virgin vinyl transfer I did.
This is the show:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ad.php?t=34781
They show the stripe fading in and out for the show's opening intro, and gone for the very next thing on the record - an embedded commercial.
It then comes back through the rest of side 1's main show, and side 2, but gone from side 3, and gone for the embedded commercials...
This was a second edition of the program, perhaps their vinyl was funky from copying it from their original broadcast...?
This is from 1980. I also have the same vinyls as that Plant 83 show that was put up. It is stripeless for the transfer of my vinyl edition of it, too.
I don't think it's coincidence that it comes and goes in unison with the program.
I don't see it being interference on my part, it's too specific to the program. It shouldn't be there one minute, and gone the next, then back again like it is.
Other KBFH's I have done don't have this, and other vinyl transfers I've done have been fine before, but this one seems to have it included...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg show intro stripe start.jpg
( 943.2 KB, 4 views)
 
File Type: jpg show start fadeout stripe dissolve.jpg
( 966.3 KB, 6 views)
 
File Type: jpg honda commercial s1 no stripe.jpg
( 974.7 KB, 4 views)
 
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  #17  
Old 2007-06-26, 06:03 PM
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Re: 16 KHz stripe in Master Open Reel Recording

yes, if it was your equipment it should be steady not fading out with the commercials. so it got in there sometime before the commercials were edited in.

could be a ground loop or something coming from a faulty/cheap pickup/amp during the gig or the equipment used to record the gig ... not certain.

bass amps are often the offender, inserting a di and lifting the ground or some other transformer setup can cure this, sometimes changing which outlet the plug is plugged into can also work magic.... of course, this isn't much of an option after the fact. The stripes can be attacked using the surgical precision of an fft filter or nr applied only on the very narrow band where it is necessary, however beware of how wide and deep the settings are or else you run the risk of creating a "black stripe" lol. Generally, leave it alone unless you're 99-100% confident about what you're doing. I have a couple tutorials on this topic somewhere on my computer and can dig them up and post them if there's any interest here.

There was one act I was doing sound for at an outdoor fest and the bass player had such a bad buzz coming from his amp we actually were muting him between songs since that's when it was most noticeable. We tried everything we could think of to get rid of it another way but time ran out and as they say the show must go on.

Another show I was at in January had some steady high-pitched noise in the audio, kinda like a buzz but more high-pitched like an "eeeeeeeeee" sound audible in the room at the time. I didn't get a chance to troubleshoot the system (I was just attending), but the stripes still showed up on the open-air recording. ps it was not my recorder causing this as it was only on that show and I recall hearing it in the room.
Attached Images
File Type: gif audstripe1.gif
( 164.7 KB, 59 views)
 
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  #18  
Old 2007-06-27, 08:23 AM
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Re: 16 KHz stripe in Master Open Reel Recording

Sorry I cannot post any audio samples for the original show that started this thread as they are not mine to post. But in general all this talk of stray signals being picked up by the cables or recording equipment does not completely explain the definite bias I have seen for a small signature ~15.5Khz-16KHz in some supposed pre-fm and many fm recordings, unless it is truly interference from a TV signal either at the source or the receiver. For FM recordings I could show many examples (by no means ubiquitous, but often enough to distinguish from a case like Five's example above).

Perhaps the fact that both FM and TV transmitting stations are often located closely together in preferential locations (Empire State Building, Mt. Wilson, etc.) may contribute? I've seen this little "signature" in some old FM jazz recordings dating back into the 1950's, so I doubt the complete explanation is people recording FM while watching TV, but it may be a combination of several factors that can come into play during recording, during transmission, and/or during reception and re-recording.

I am still holding this topic open as a question mark, but the "TV signal interference" is the (IMHO) "better-than-SWAG" hypothesis that I am taking out of this discussion until/unless a better explanation comes along.

I love this forum for all of the knowledgeable people who care enough to reply. Thanks to you all.

Last edited by guygee; 2007-06-27 at 08:30 AM.
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  #19  
Old 2007-06-27, 09:15 AM
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Re: 16 KHz stripe in Master Open Reel Recording

the 15.750kHz flyback problem has been around since TVs became ubiquitous.... in the 1950s. If the recording is transferred on a computer with a CRT, in goes the noise. The freq is only slightly different in Europe.

http://www.high-techproductions.com/pal,ntsc.htm

It's everywhere, and it gets into tape recordings.
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  #20  
Old 2007-07-10, 10:51 AM
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Re: 16 KHz stripe in Master Open Reel Recording

Check this screen out, from Police Pinkpop:
It's lineage is this: FM > Pioneer VSX-D512 receiver > PHILIPS CDR 870 (standalone CD-recorder) > CDRW > PC > EAC 0.9 > WAV > Cool Edit Pro 2.1 > WAV > FLAC
Wierd 19k ringing tinnitus in my ears
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File Type: jpg Pinkpop freq analysis t1.jpg
( 1,005.4 KB, 40 views)
 
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  #21  
Old 2007-07-11, 05:18 PM
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Re: 16 KHz stripe in Master Open Reel Recording

yeah, that's normal for an FM broadcast. try taping something off the radio at home and you'll see what I mean
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  #22  
Old 2007-10-14, 12:03 PM
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Re: 16 KHz stripe in Master Open Reel Recording

Anybody still following this thread?

A 16kHz stripe is the 15,734 kHz (IIRC) emanation from a TV. It comes from the horizontal oscillator used for scanning and shows up on analog recordings made with a TV nearby. Ugh!

It's a sine wave and if you slow down the recording, it's an audible whistle.

Even if you can't hear it directly (most people can't) it "dirties up" the lower freqs.




Aww. I see the question has already been aswered on page 2
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  #23  
Old 2007-10-14, 12:29 PM
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Re: 16 KHz stripe in Master Open Reel Recording

I was about to ask about this being an echo chamber.. good to know others are hip to the problem, though :
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