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  #106  
Old 2007-05-26, 10:33 PM
smashing0 smashing0 is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
And I see that entropy357 probably won't be answering whether or not any zomb admins had the stones to call bullshit on the "Fuck-the-Taper" policy at zomb.
the zomb have about 40 staff members
and we're not run by some megalomaniacal dictator, we all have our thoughts and opinions on this situation
some thought it was in bad taste to bring it over right away
some thought that the first announcement was probably poorly worded
but ALL thought that sebastian was unjustly attacking our site
so the general consensus was that they'll get pissed no matter when it came to zomb so why not make the zomb people happy and seed it ASAP
the torrents on both sites have been very well seeded since the first completion
  #107  
Old 2007-05-26, 10:35 PM
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trustthex trustthex is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
(Oh, btw, I'll tell all you guys and anyone who will listen, my daughter graduated from college today in MIS with a 4.0! It was awesome and I'm so damn proud of her!)
congrats, not easy to do... hope you got her something really nice (and hopefully not a computer)
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  #108  
Old 2007-05-26, 10:36 PM
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smashing0
the zomb have about 40 staff members
and we're not run by some megalomaniacal dictator, we all have our thoughts and opinions on this situation
some thought it was in bad taste to bring it over right away
some thought that the first announcement was probably poorly worded
but ALL thought that sebastian was unjustly attacking our site
so the general consensus was that they'll get pissed no matter when it came to zomb so why not make the zomb people happy and seed it ASAP
the torrents on both sites have been very well seeded since the first completion
So ALL are OK with the "Fuck-the-Taper" policy?

  #109  
Old 2007-05-26, 10:52 PM
smashing0 smashing0 is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

it's not a "Fuck-the-Taper" policy
it's a "What the fuck are you talking about I can't share?" policy
ZOMB allows ALL lossless, non-commercial material from taper-friendly bands

We love tapers! without them we wouldn't have this great hobby. We just don't like playing politics and favourites.

If I were to tape a show, like I hope to start doing soon and tagged it with "Only listen to on Tuesday nights in the light of a full moon" should you listen to my request? No! That's just stupid, and to us Don't share a Smashing Pumpkins recording on a tracker (loosely) founded on the Smashing Pumpkins sounds just as stupid to us

Honest, well meaning and reasonable taper requests will always be honoured by ZOMB Staff, but we'll still listen to recordings on a Wednesday even if we're told not to
  #110  
Old 2007-05-26, 10:54 PM
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U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisattva
correct Lynne, but I am just an individual here. Although I may have posted here my intentions for my site, they never were enacted. Even things I feel very passionately about we do not do on ZOMB. I wish I always got my way, haha. But we never told ZOMB users that it could not be on the site.
No, you aren't an Admin here, but I think you know that you are seen as one wherever you go. I sometimes hate that fact that I register with either U2Lynne or Lynne on all the sites I go to. No matter what I say, I am held accountable here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisattva
I can post all day about how I'd like the site to be run, and to a major degree what I want to get done, does get done, but like I said, I'm not a dictator, and as it was mulled over, it was clear to me my feelings were not the proper course of action to be taken.

Anyways, its a long read. If you actually do read this all, than as stated by many of your fans here, you are definitely a great admin. Not sure I could even stomach this all again.
I hear you here also. Some people think since I 'own' the site (read, I registered the site name and I also admin it) that I make all the decisions here. I don't and in fact I don't want to. I try to bring all topics to Staff and I have been out voted at times. I like Staff to have opinions, that is why they are Staff. (I hate calling them just Staff when they are a bunch of great individuals who I'm lucky enough that want to help out the site, but I felt the need to come up with a group term here.)

I will read the thread, but you guys have to stop posting first!
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  #111  
Old 2007-05-26, 10:58 PM
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U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trustthex
congrats, not easy to do... hope you got her something really nice (and hopefully not a computer)
Nope, no computer, a pair of diamond earrings that I would love myself. They look beautiful on her. Oh... and I'm So Damned Proud Of Her!
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  #112  
Old 2007-05-26, 11:30 PM
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smashing0
it's not a "Fuck-the-Taper" policy
it's a "What the fuck are you talking about I can't share?" policy
ZOMB allows ALL lossless, non-commercial material from taper-friendly bands
Your site and site admins went out of their way to disrespect the taper and his wishes.

You had that show up within hours of it first going up here. Have you guys no courtesy at all? Have you no shame? You certainly showed no respect to this site with your scarfing it up and putting it up over there immediately.

Couldn't you have posted a link to this site?

No because that didn't say FUCK YOU to the taper as strongly as you guys wanted. You zombs wanted to send a message to tapers, well, you did. The tapers reading this thread saw through you immediately.

Nobody said anything about NOT sharing, That's nothing more than subterfuge on your part, damned disingenious also.

Jesus Christ, how can you dare to say he wasn't allowing the recording to be shared, when you zombs snatched it DIRECTLY from this site?


This all has to do with a disagreement in policy between your site and the taper, something that you zombs refused to try to work out before saying FUCK YOU to the taper.

Did anyone at zomb try and open a private conversation with Sebastian to work it out?.......By looking at bodhisattva's replies, doesn't seem like it, looks like he was on the defensive from word one.

Sorry, I see a "Fuck the tapers" policy prevalent at zomb, as bragged about in this thread.....

Your mileage may vary.





Quote:
Originally Posted by smashing0
We love tapers! without them we wouldn't have this great hobby. We just don't like playing politics and favourites.
well, in retrospect, you'd have to say that....if you really did admit to a blanket "Fuck The Tapers" policy at zomb, you might as well fold up the tent and slink off into the night.

However, I'll bet there are more than a few reading this thread who thinks zomb not only doesn't play favorites (unless someone 'donates')....you don't play fair or even, either.








Quote:
Originally Posted by smashing0
If I were to tape a show, like I hope to start doing soon and tagged it with "Only listen to on Tuesday nights in the light of a full moon" should you listen to my request? No! That's just stupid, and to us Don't share a Smashing Pumpkins recording on a tracker (loosely) founded on the Smashing Pumpkins sounds just as stupid to us

Honest, well meaning and reasonable taper requests will always be honoured by ZOMB Staff, but we'll still listen to recordings on a Wednesday even if we're told not to
Well, that was an absolutely silly attempt at trying to marginalize the real disagreement in philosophies.

The actual dispute is over your site soliciting funds which is a policy the taper disagrees with.

I'm sure he knew that his tape would eventually trickle down to your site, but grabbing it from TTD and posting it at zomb in less than 24 to 48 hours....that's a show of NO-CLASS on the part of your site and it sends a big FUCK You to the taper. And you guys know it.

You should make sure other tapers know of the "Fuck The taper" attitude at your site.

Again, your mileage may vary.











Here's the disclaimer I use. It probably wouldn't fly for the taper unfriendly types at zomb either.

Quote:
PS: Please show some respect for the taper, the recording and your fellow collectors:

Please do not "re-package" this show with misinformation or incorrect information or NO information.













The time now is 09:35 PM.
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (4 members and 0 guests)
freezer, patrick1963, Spring, E_rock, bodhisattva


Last edited by freezer; 2007-05-26 at 11:38 PM.
  #113  
Old 2007-05-26, 11:31 PM
Spring Spring is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

foxtrot raises a pretty good point. I don't know why Zomb has chosen to avoid it.

Last edited by Spring; 2007-05-26 at 11:40 PM.
  #114  
Old 2007-05-26, 11:41 PM
zombfuckingsucks
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisattva
i am done answering your BS questions. stop grabbing at thin air and pretending you have something.

if members of zomb are posting anywhere its because of trolls like yourself starting problems.

if we get new members, great. members are constantly signing up, its not more money, its more bandwidth, as this is bit torrent, and every byte helps!
I am asking relevant and reasonable questions that I believe people have a right to be informed about.

It's frivolous that you would refer to me as a "troll." Unlike yourself, I have not resorted to name-calling or ad hominem attacks to avoid answering questions that would inform people. By any reasonable standard, ignorance is not a virtue and applying labels such as "troll" "terrorist" or "communist" etc. do not make an individual's claim less true.

Last edited by zombfuckingsucks; 2007-05-26 at 11:48 PM.
  #115  
Old 2007-05-26, 11:52 PM
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

The time now is 09:44 PM.
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (9 members and 1 guests)
freezer, jcrab66, Phishblowz, smashing0, zombfuckingsucks, ISTAYAWAY17, patrick1963, SoulRat, E_rock

Jesus Christ on a crutch.....it's Saturday night...why the hell are you staring at a computer screen........go out and hear some live music.....and tape it.....why'don't 'cha?

I'm recording a concert from off the FM in 20 minutes.....what are you adding to the trade pool tonight, huh?
  #116  
Old 2007-05-26, 11:57 PM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
The time now is 09:44 PM.
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (9 members and 1 guests)
freezer, jcrab66, Phishblowz, smashing0, zombfuckingsucks, ISTAYAWAY17, patrick1963, SoulRat, E_rock

Jesus Christ on a crutch.....it's Saturday night...why the hell are you staring at a computer screen........go out and hear some live music.....and tape it.....why'don't 'cha?

I'm recording a concert from off the FM in 20 minutes.....what are you adding to the trade pool tonight, huh?
Write a FAQ. I'd love to record off of the stations here, but I'm clueless on how to.

{Lynne hides}
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  #117  
Old 2007-05-26, 11:58 PM
Phishblowz Phishblowz is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
The time now is 09:44 PM.
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (9 members and 1 guests)
freezer, jcrab66, Phishblowz, smashing0, zombfuckingsucks, ISTAYAWAY17, patrick1963, SoulRat, E_rock

Jesus Christ on a crutch.....it's Saturday night...why the hell are you staring at a computer screen........go out and hear some live music.....and tape it.....why'don't 'cha?

I'm recording a concert from off the FM in 20 minutes.....what are you adding to the trade pool tonight, huh?
I'm pissing and moaning of course...doesn't that make me cool

edit: the time is now 11:56pm EST...it's a big world and I don't see the importance of putting the time on your post as it is clearly stated in the top of your post, but if you must, you may wish to include the time zone you guys are referring to, because believe it or not, there's a lot of folks that aren't in your time zones gang!!!
  #118  
Old 2007-05-27, 12:05 AM
smashing0 smashing0 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
Your site and site admins went out of their way to disrespect the taper and his wishes.
Wishes, that on the surface, seemed ridiculous

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
you (x7)
It wasn't me. JellyBelly uploaded it in order to share it amongst the largest group of people he could
ZOMB's forums aren't checked by a large majority of our users...
Putting it up quickly was a very dick-ish thing to do, but so was saying DO not upload to ZOMB. ZOMB sucks. (an explanation to that was not given until much later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
This all has to do with a disagreement in policy between your site and the taper, something that you zombs refused to try to work out before saying FUCK YOU to the taper.

Did anyone at zomb try and open a private conversation with Sebastian to work it out?.......By looking at bodhisattva's replies, doesn't seem like it, looks like he was on the defensive from word one.
Sebastian and a couple staff members have had private conversations in the past due to issues

these issues were related to Mixwell "remaster"ing an FM recording and JellyBelly doing something similar to this before (I believe)

other than zombfuckingsucks I have not heard of the donation issue before, and as far as I can tell was not mentioned anywhere

I think JellyBelly assumed that the message was due to their past misunderstandings and seeded it out of spite (a personal attack in response to Sebastian's attack to ZOMB)

Again that is pure speculation

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
The actual dispute is over your site soliciting funds which is a policy the taper disagrees with.
which was not brought up til later, and all speculation on our side showed that it was most likely past disagreements with our staff (disagreements which our staff spent many hours trying to smooth over with Sebastian)

Your obsession with this "Fuck-the-Tapers" policy is just a misunderstandment
We seriously love the tapers, and honour any REASONABLE request

and a message that says do not upload to ZOMB (without any stated reason) does not fall under reasonable

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
PS: Please show some respect for the taper, the recording and your fellow collectors:

Please do not "re-package" this show with misinformation or incorrect information or NO information.
I like that
mind if I use that in PM's to members at ZOMB who try to upload shows to ZOMB with misinformation/incorrect information or no information? (completely serious)

(do you really need to have 8 returns between paragraphs? that is slightly annoying)
  #119  
Old 2007-05-27, 01:00 AM
Phishblowz Phishblowz is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

FWIW, although I understand this has been modified since...the whole thing says not only FUCK the TAPER, but it seems to encourage people to do so, rather than just allowing them to do so...it says that not only should we go out of your way to ignore the tapers request (if you feel it's unreasonable...which you ALL know is open for scrutiny) but also that if we respect the wishes of tapers who YOU feel have unfair requests, then WE need to "re-evaluate our place in the world"

now I can understand that you won't pull a torrent because someone else don't like it, but this is saying that we should actively undermine the tapers and if we don't then there's something wrong with us...you can't stand back and say you had nothing to do with this mess when you plainly support this notion...

in the case of Sebastian not wanting his material shared there, I agree that this is unreasonable because decent folks (apparently thousands of them) would be screwed because of personal grudges with admin and their policy, but the blanket statement you made shows very poor judgement IMHO and as with many of your opinions, it has been changed now that it is under scrutiny, and although you told someone not to post it because it is outdated you failed to post the update so we can see if it's a better policy or the same shit worded better (why have a policy when it changes every time it's scrutinized???) you tell us to "stand up for ourselves" but when asked to defend your position, you make changes to reflect the fact that even you can't defend your original position on the matter...you really need to pick a path and walk it if you want someone to respect your opinions...you change with the weather...you speak with very strong words (until someone questions you) and you strike me as a reasonable guy, so I don't understand how in the face of all that has transpired that you don't assume ANY responsibility for what happened here

I'll let a skeleton out of my closet to prove a point...I got an old Floyd show which had just made it's way into circulation for the very first time here (thanx to Chachi) and decided I needed to share this far and wide, and I upped it to the dime (as a newb I never thought twice...just wanted to share) and I got flamed for disrespecting the original seed here by upping it there before it ran it's course here...no one even said not to share it elsewhere in the torrent here (I guess it was just an understanding amongst traders) but that didn't stop them from pointing out that I was wrong for doing so...I apologized for the unintentional disrespect and never did it again...I at least wait until the original seed has run it's course...unless it's a very small site and no one (or very few) here would have gotten it from there...if this type of ettiquette is generally understood between traders, how, as an admin, can you pretend to not realize the implications of your actions??? I am feeling as though you have been a little dishonest in how you portray the events here...having only waited 24-48hrs to have it there may have caused trouble even without being asked not to share it there (as it did in my case) but knowing the taper didn't want it on Zomb and doing it so soon is a slap in the face (whether you meant it that way or not) and the fact that you seem to gloss over that says a lot...I still believe you're a reasonable guy (based on the fact that you seem to at least defend yourself w/o vulgarity and hate) but I see that you defend yourself on the issues you feel you can validate and avoid the ones you can't...

ultimately although Sebastian knows he can't stop it from getting to Zomb, you (as the admin) have to take responsibility for the fact that you allowed this, knowing full well what hellfire would ensue...you could have stopped this and chose not to...and based what what I read from your site (as posted here earlier) as well as your own words here, you not only allow this behavior but instigate it as well...hopefully you can understand how your statement makes you look and try to clean it up a bit over there

I take NO offense to your solicitaions or donations or whatever people wanna label it, because (as you stated) they know the deal before they donate, and that stops it from being a scam (it may be unethical, but that's between you and those who choose to donate, and it's not for me to cast judgement on that) but your attitude towards tapers and their wishes is deplorable and should be ammended (you said you have done so, but haven't provided the new statement so I don't know if it's any better or not) but the only issue I have at this point with you is the fact that you encourage others to disregard the wishes of the taper, and make your members feel as though there is something wrong with them if they respect the tapers wishes...that's just fucked up and you deserve to be called out on that...who are you to tell me to re-evaluate my place in the world???

even though I am hesitant to side with Sebastian because he is still wrong for posting a hateful comment about Zomb in the first place, and has no right to expect that the torrent won't pop up elsewhere...I can't help but feel that the way it went down was deliberate, and you and yours have remained unapologetic for the disrespect...for all the response about this, I find you and yours strangely silent about that issue

but I take the highest offense at the way you express you opinions towards the members of your site who respect the tapers...you should have more respect for your community than to talk to them like that...you asked not to have this posted because it has been updated, but you haven't posted it here, so I will repost the original as posted on page 2 or 3 because that is the only official word on the subject from your site (rather than you or your staff personally) and if you don't want this to be the way your site is represented then please post the updated version of your policy towards tapers and their wishes (and your opinions towards those who respect their wishes) for now all I see is a hateful statement showing hostility towards tapers wishes AND those who respect them...I realize you said you were done here, but I feel these points ought to be addressed...I don't want to attack you and make a big stink, but in trying to look at this objectively, I have formed my opinion, and if my opinions are based on inaccuracies or dated info, then please correct me so that we can all see where you really stand...as of now, you stand on shaky ground (based on the info I gathered) hopefully you can prove me wrong...I'd like to think that NO live music sharing site would think this way about the tapers OR those who respect their wishes...I would appreciate if you took the opportunity to explain yourself in case I have made decisions based on misleading information...as an outside observer, there's a good chance that I am not the only one who sees things the way I do...and curiously, for all the valid points I made, the only one that was picked up and addressed was about the comment about hookers (which was made in jest) all the valid points made were either glossed over or outright disregarded...that speaks volumes in itself...

this post from your site clearly says to me "fuck the tapers" and if you respect their wishes then there's something wrong with you...maybe I read it wrong
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  #120  
Old 2007-05-27, 01:07 AM
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freezer freezer is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smashing0
Wishes, that on the surface, seemed ridiculous
Too bad, not your call to make. No matter what the taper said, the actions of your site and admins are absolutely totally unethical and indefensible.

Especially in regards to this site and to the tapers wishes.






Quote:
Originally Posted by smashing0
It wasn't me. JellyBelly uploaded it in order to share it amongst the largest group of people he could
ZOMB's forums aren't checked by a large majority of our users...
Putting it up quickly was a very dick-ish thing to do, but so was saying DO not upload to ZOMB. ZOMB sucks. (an explanation to that was not given until much later)
Being a dick in return doesn't make you right, it just makes you a dick.

And now because of the "dick-ish" thing your site admins did, does that make all the participants 'dicks" .....

Apparently, if I read your words correctly, to you it sure seems that the people involved at zomb are 'dick-ish' to say the least.

By that admission alone I just gained more respect for you. That's more than bodhisattva admitted to in his 100,000 word essays today.



Quote:
Originally Posted by smashing0
Your obsession with this "Fuck-the-Tapers" policy is just a misunderstandment
We seriously love the tapers, and honour any REASONABLE request
No obsession, some tapers here are conversing amongst themelves (myself included) and see zomb in a new light, illuminated as shown in this thread and with today's actions as being Taper-unfriendly.

That's just the opinion of a few tapers, nothing to worry about, just say fuck 'em all and move on.









Quote:
Originally Posted by smashing0
and a message that says do not upload to ZOMB (without any stated reason) does not fall under reasonable
So you say, still it's only your opinion on what anybody has a right to say, but wait until you actually tape a show or two hundred before acting like you know from whence you speak.....

Wait until some site admins say "Fuck You smashing0", just as your zomb site did today to Sebastian...and then use the site to trample your wishes.... Let's see if you like it.



And I saw you didn't address the backhanded swipe you zombs took at TTD for being uncourteous....why be any different from bodhisattva who is a master at avoiding answers.

I'm sure you all feel justified at whatever questionable actions you zombs did today, as long as you could all say a big Fuck you to the taper.

that was the important thing at zomb, wasn't it....to be able to say Fuck You Sebastian ---Fuck you to the taper -- as strongly as your site could.




























Quote:
Originally Posted by smashing0
(do you really need to have 8 returns between paragraphs? that is slightly annoying)
Oh, I dunno.....it's not quite as annoying as trying to get someone from your site to admit that your admins exemplified how a torrent site can be taper-unfriendly, all the while justifying some bullshit actions against a taper.

("He was a dick so we HAD to be pricks in return." is that what you mean, smashing0? Really, are you serious??? Because that's the gist of the defense of your site and admins.)


.....Do you zombs get as anal about ppl. typing in a post also?




Besides if I don't seperate ideas, ....well, you read this thread, didn't you see how confused bodhisattva said he was earlier today and being confused and befuddled allowed him to ignore pertinent questions while he was ranting off-topic. (You need to see where he got confused? it can be pointed out, if necessary?)










Lighten up, if you guys hadn't already shown yourselves to have been just as 'dick-ish' as possible in regards to respecting a taper's wishes, you wouldn't feel you needed to be this vigorous in defending the integrity of your site.

Last edited by freezer; 2007-05-27 at 01:17 AM. Reason: double-checkin' to get rid of anything that refers to bogus l......
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