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Site Announcements & Suggestions This is where you should make your suggestions to us on how to improve your experience here and where to post about site problems/issues.
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  #1  
Old 2007-05-25, 08:45 PM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
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What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Usually a site has a person or two who decides what the donation money goes to. Some sites just put the money towards server costs, some towards ratio 'help', some towards who-knows-what. But, basically, the users don't really vote on where the money is spent.

WITHOUT BRINGING SITE NAMES INTO THIS, we are talking IN GENERAL, what do people expect from the site that is taking donations. Should the site post an accounting of exactly where the money is going? Should the site ask the users if it is OK to upgrade to a new server? Should the site ask the users for permission before spending any of the money? Should the site ask permission before deciding to give benefits to those that donate? And should only the people who donate monetarily be allow to have any say in these decisions?

What exactly is the site's responsibility to its users in regards to the donations?
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  #2  
Old 2007-05-25, 08:53 PM
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trustthex trustthex is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

I've always felt/assumed that donations should be used to pay for bw, server/colo costs, etc. in response to your questions, in order:

1: if it wants to, only public companies have to post their accounting... i dont think the site should have to, i hadn't thought that admins would be raking in money on this whole deal. this is a hobby, and for the most part we have jobs.

2: only if you want them to panic before the upgrade

3: nope, bills in, bills out

4: what kind of benefits? a tax rightoff? :-p anything else feels shady to me

5: nope, not everyone who votes participates in democracy.

6: do no evil
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Quote:
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  #3  
Old 2007-05-25, 09:27 PM
zombfuckingsucks
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Torrent sites should never ever sell ratio power for money and then falsely apply the misnomer "donation" as though it were a donation to downplay the sale of copyrighted material; which is what it is! While donations for server costs are fine, exchanging bootlegs or access to bootlegs for money is not. Any website that engages in this action is sleazy and reprehensible at best.


THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SALE AND DONATION


Sale: The exchange of product for money
Donation: A pledge or free contribution without reciprocal exc




U2Lynne,
I'm not trying to be adversarial and I commend that you are trying to restore some peace and civility. However, I think people should at least be aware of the particular websites that do engage in this practice, otherwise corruption will go unfettered and unquestioned at the expense of free trade and the true spirit of music.
  #4  
Old 2007-05-25, 09:38 PM
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trustthex trustthex is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

never assume ratio = power, plenty of people with either shitty ratios, or none at all
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The critics of the Information Age see everything in the negative, as if the quantity of information can lead to a loss of meaning. They said the same thing about Gutenberg.
-Timothy Leary


Meatwad: I thought you said TV was bad.
Frylock: It is. But we fucking need it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by general eclectic
There's a big difference between getting trashed and disappearing.
  #5  
Old 2007-05-25, 09:43 PM
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U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

OK, but what if a site is upfront and says 'your donation will get you - ratio help or access to private part of the site or xxxx'. What if you want none of those 'perks' but you want to thank the site and help with server costs (which I think all sites have to deal with!).


This thread will be fine as long as we keep it civil and all just discuss our opinions.
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  #6  
Old 2007-05-25, 09:46 PM
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onerok onerok is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombfuckingsucks
Torrent sites should never ever sell ratio power for money and then falsely apply the misnomer "donation" as though it were a donation to downplay the sale of copyrighted material; which is what it is! While donations for server costs are fine, exchanging bootlegs or access to bootlegs for money is not. Any website that engages in this action is sleazy and reprehensible at best.


THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SALE AND DONATION


Sale: The exchange of product for money
Donation: A pledge or free contribution without reciprocal exc

U2Lynne,
I'm not trying to be adversarial and I commend that you are trying to restore some peace and civility. However, I think people should at least be aware of the particular websites that do engage in this practice, otherwise corruption will go unfettered and unquestioned at the expense of free trade and the true spirit of music.
God you are so full of shit. You and your bullshit tough wanna be lawyer talk. No one is selling access to bootlegs you stupid fuck. Your definition of donation is not entirely accurate. People make donations or contributions to charities all the the time that offer small gifts of their appreciation. Offering an upload credit is not offering product or access. Everyone has equal access to the site and agree's to the site's rules about sharing before they start downloading. If you don't like the rules about share ratios then don't join. As long as is clear as to what the money goes to, then there is no problem. If you believe otherwise then you should offer some evidence besides your bullshit rantings, and hold all sites to the same conditions. If you don't want to donate then by all means do not. If you don't want an upload credit, then say so, and you won't get it. Torrents can be made ratio free at the request of the taper, and are if you are so concerned about money issues. Your attempt to slander a certain website is totally fucking bogus. Take your asshole lawyer prick waving and go fuck yourself.
  #7  
Old 2007-05-25, 09:52 PM
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direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

site admins & accounting - servers have a cost - hosted websites have a cost - data/traffic has a cost.

donations make these sites possible

0. admins offer personal time & monies to configure and create communities
1. people donate shows - time & effort
2. leechers offer bandwidth to share out with others.
3. mods offer time & energies to ensure community is within standards & enjoyable.
(mods often get the short end of the stick - as they must enforce wisely and openly - often subject to criticism )
4. donations complete the circle > back to server hardware costs/bandwidth cost/software upgrade costs.

this has been the norm for a couple decades.

offering special treatment to some traders has always existed.
that is how the world spins.

creating a community where a person is basically 'told' they will remain 'underlings' unless a donation is offered (vip member status...etc) is bullshit.
you are belittling to play users against each other for social status.
Offering an 'elite status' for money is a scam to collect revenue.
Money for ratio credit is bullshit - that is a hustle.

a good solid trading community has always been generous.
A good community ensures that the pleasure offered out
continues for themselves and others.

im going to finish my meal... back with more thoughts in a few..

Last edited by direwolf-pgh; 2007-05-25 at 10:02 PM.
  #8  
Old 2007-05-25, 10:07 PM
trustthex's Avatar
trustthex trustthex is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
OK, but what if a site is upfront and says 'your donation will get you - ratio help or access to private part of the site or xxxx'. What if you want none of those 'perks' but you want to thank the site and help with server costs (which I think all sites have to deal with!).


This thread will be fine as long as we keep it civil and all just discuss our opinions.
i don't think that would really influence my decision... fark has totalfark, and that has never made me want to sign/pay up. if my donation were to get me a t-shirt, that would be pretty neat

i guess we need someone w/ contract/business law to really get down to the legalities on all of this, but i'm pretty sure that offering exclusive access or something would definitely constitute a business. adding gb to make up one's ratio is just kinda weak imho.
__________________
The critics of the Information Age see everything in the negative, as if the quantity of information can lead to a loss of meaning. They said the same thing about Gutenberg.
-Timothy Leary


Meatwad: I thought you said TV was bad.
Frylock: It is. But we fucking need it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by general eclectic
There's a big difference between getting trashed and disappearing.
  #9  
Old 2007-05-25, 10:22 PM
Syco54645's Avatar
Syco54645 Syco54645 is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

splra ran a fund raiser last year. we raised the money that we needed in no time flat. all of that money went into moving the server to our new host. we are not dedicated hosted so the money that we needed came fast. nicest thing about our new host is that they have a place where someone can donate money that it goes directly to dreamhost for our costs so no one can complain. even before this, we had no problem getting donations when they went to milan's paypal. with the excess money we decided that rather than putting it towards next year to get beer and hookers... the beer store was closed, so we just got some hookers. this was a joke actually. we stopped accepting donations once we were within $5 or something of the target as to not go over. maybe people would feel more comfortable if all hosts had something like this that people could donate through (the dreamhost donation thing that is).

-Frank
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  #10  
Old 2007-05-25, 10:32 PM
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Syco54645 Syco54645 is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

i am going to have to agree with trustthex about donations affecting ratio, i dont really agree with it, though it balances out i suppose. either way the person is contributing to the community in one way or another. the poor person can seed, the rich can hit and run. i need to seed more . my ratio is getting rather limp.

edit:
forgot to mention that i do know why sites do it though. it is more not liking it than not agreeing with it.
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  #11  
Old 2007-05-25, 10:50 PM
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direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

ehh.. if i didnt like what a site did - id go to another one or create my own (again)...

personally Im having a good time.. hope everyone else is.

yes i donate here and there - when i feel like it
  #12  
Old 2007-05-25, 10:55 PM
Syco54645's Avatar
Syco54645 Syco54645 is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh
ehh.. if i didnt like what a site did - id go to another one or create my own (again)...
hahaha instantly reminded me of
"Fine. I'll go build my own lunar lander! With blackjack! And hookers! In fact, forget the lunar lander and the blackjack! Ah, screw the whole thing."
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  #13  
Old 2007-05-25, 11:01 PM
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direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

we have all been down that path - its an industry thing.

running a site is a lot of fun... sometimes it spins this way and that..
too big can be the biggest issue. finding a comfortable compromise is the way to go
  #14  
Old 2007-05-25, 11:47 PM
zombfuckingsucks
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Easy sailor-mouth, I would ask that you settle down and desist from posting libel about those who value an education. Take notice that libel is written and slander is spoken, however, I've not posted any libelous information about that particular site.

My distinction between donations and sales was on the money. In fact, many charities will strategically give small gifts in return for their customers' pledges to make sure their clients are bound by contract so they honour their pledges. One who makes a true donation is not bound by any such contact nor is their an exchange. These are actually classified as exchanges not as donations since donations are not enforceable by contract while exchanges/sales are. So now you know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by onerok
God you are so full of shit. You and your bullshit tough wanna be lawyer talk. No one is selling access to bootlegs you stupid fuck. Your definition of donation is not entirely accurate. People make donations or contributions to charities all the the time that offer small gifts of their appreciation. Offering an upload credit is not offering product or access. Everyone has equal access to the site and agree's to the site's rules about sharing before they start downloading. If you don't like the rules about share ratios then don't join. As long as is clear as to what the money goes to, then there is no problem. If you believe otherwise then you should offer some evidence besides your bullshit rantings, and hold all sites to the same conditions. If you don't want to donate then by all means do not. If you don't want an upload credit, then say so, and you won't get it. Torrents can be made ratio free at the request of the taper, and are if you are so concerned about money issues. Your attempt to slander a certain website is totally fucking bogus. Take your asshole lawyer prick waving and go fuck yourself.
  #15  
Old 2007-05-25, 11:54 PM
zombfuckingsucks
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
OK, but what if a site is upfront and says 'your donation will get you - ratio help or access to private part of the site or xxxx'. What if you want none of those 'perks' but you want to thank the site and help with server costs (which I think all sites have to deal with!).


This thread will be fine as long as we keep it civil and all just discuss our opinions.
If you just want to donate that's fine... as long as that money isn't abused and spent on recording equipment and indulgences. However, to sell those perks is to sell access to illegal material. As I said, donating is one thing, but there must be no exchange. A particular site does this to induce more "donators" and bring a mix of purchasers to increase their revenue; a clear line of accountability which has been crossed.
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