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  #31  
Old 2007-05-26, 12:26 PM
diggrd's Avatar
diggrd diggrd is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

While reading this thread I was struck by a few things, ideas not cars or bricks or frying pans.

I think AAR.oner's comment of the change in the community and trustthex's point of instant gratification are spot on. As a taper and videographer of live music I rarely rush to get a show out to the web. I almost feel as though the tour deserves to have the spotlight and when the performer is out of the limelight that is when it makes sense to renew our passion for their product in recorded form. That is not to say that I have not taken full advantage of those such as RobC who routinely get them out within days if not hours of returning home. Frankly sometimes I'm just too busy going to the shows to worry too much about putting up a torrent.

The idea of elite status for donations makes me think about my own practice of purchasing VIP festival tickets. Personally I'm not looking for anything beyond a clean latrine for my extra dough. I have always over prepared for any event and ended up providing others with my own VIP amenities. So the perks are not a real big deal to me. In fact I revel in being among the hoi polloi and the craziness that ensues at big shows. I like to support the places I go to see live music so if I can afford VIP and help out a little more I do so. Since I pay little or no attention to ratios I personally would never buy ratio credit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by frankenberry
anybody else who decides to call me a fuckhead troll newbie (you know who you are) should be made to listen to phish bootleg taped by a '73 led zeppelin taper
  #32  
Old 2007-05-26, 12:26 PM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

I just want to clarify that this is just a discussion that was moved from another thread. I have no intention of changing the way we run things here. We have a donations page where I outline what our costs are for the month. Normally it is just our montly server fees ($238), but sometimes it is more (like the set-up fees for the servers which I choose to pay upfront in order to get a lower monthly rate). TTD also doesn't give any sort of perks to those that donate. Well, they get a Thank You email, but no special forums or special tracker or ratio credit. We have chosen to do it that way for many of the reasons already outlined in this thread.
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  #33  
Old 2007-05-26, 12:28 PM
bodhisattva's Avatar
bodhisattva bodhisattva is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

If OUR website (zomb) wants to ask OUR members to send in a few extra dollars so OUR website can buy some gear that people who have already purchased tickets to concerts can use to go out to tape shows to release to the public, than where is the problem with this?

When this request went up do you think thousands of dollars started rolling in? Is that the issue here? I believe since we asked for help with the gear we have received around $45 total. So far on the gear I have spent $175. Due to spend another $100-$150 easily, and that doesn't even consider the upkeep, peripherals, and the cost for the staff to send the gear back and forth. Its not an all inclusive paid trip as some people like to believe.

We also ask everyone who donates what they want the money they have sent in to go towards. So far all have said the taping gear.

If we don't bring in the total amount that I have spent, NO BIG DEAL, the gear will still go out, and we will still tape shows.

The fact that I have asked OUR members to help offset this cost should not concern anyone and I find it extemely funny that people on other websites are worried about what we do on ours.

Also we are not going to recognize any tapers whishes where they believe they can control who people share the data they've downloaded with. Our sites views on this are stated clearly on our front page.

Quote:
Requests By Tapers

Posted on: 2007-05-25 22:31:46 GMT (17 hours ago)
Requests by tapers telling you where you can or cannot share a show you have downloaded should be ignored.

Tapers do not have the right to tell you who you can share your files with.

If you feel you owe respect to people who use source text files to spread hatred and ignorance than you need to re-evaluate your place in this world.

If you see someone making comments like this, stand up for yourself and let them know you are not going to let them control your data!

Thank you,
ZOMB Torrents
People that don't like the site, don't need to visit. But I understand being able to say, I am not these people, I am better, helps validate your existence, as people do it every day.

And if you really really think that people sharing music, anywhere, is hurting people, or the world or the scene even, (especially because some pompous person made a comment in a text file) than you need to do more than just hang out in the trading community.
  #34  
Old 2007-05-26, 12:42 PM
direwolf-pgh's Avatar
direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Location: down in the basement
Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

dude.. ya fucked up - and people called you out.

you should have thought things through a little better.

you pissed off some old tapers - then insulted them twice.

donations probably arent rolling in because the request is hilarious.

=======

im not going to pull any punches here..that is not my style.
and this is just my opinion. anyone can do as they wish.. dosent bother me.
  #35  
Old 2007-05-26, 12:46 PM
bodhisattva's Avatar
bodhisattva bodhisattva is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh
dude.. ya fucked up - and people called you out.

you should have thought things through a little better.

you pissed off some old tapers - then insulted them twice.

you need to step back and get over yourself - your donation request is a scam

donations probably arent rolling in because the request insults the community

think about it
donations never roll in. that is the point! do you think they do?

no one fucked up. the only thing that seems to be fucked up is the thinking of a few people, and I don't mind taking some time to talk it over.

there is no scam. we have stated clearly what we are asking for, if members want to help out, its there perogative. where is the scam? how are people being scammed? strong words.

I have no need to step anywhere. I am here, if you want to communicate I can continue to be here, communicate. Or, what, you want me to step back so you can libel and have no one call you on it?

I am not trying to argue with you either, but I am trying to understand your logic. Why am I any worse than anyone else? What makes others better? What is your major hang up here?
  #36  
Old 2007-05-26, 12:52 PM
direwolf-pgh's Avatar
direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisattva
I am not trying to argue with you either, but I am trying to understand your logic. Why am I any worse than anyone else? What makes others better? What is your major hang up here?
its all good in my book - this is just discussion - and perhaps it will smooth over a few things.

are you worse than anyone else? I doubt you are worse than me - I used to be a pirate. Yar!

What is my major hang up? I need to up my post count!

im making light of this... because I agree this should not be a site-on-site bashup.

but somehow Zomb has raised some questions...

1. why is his recording at your site - with a free ratio ..when you sell ratio credits?

2. selling ratio credits = selling boots (imo)

3.donations for recording equipment is a unique idea... im only curious how it pans out.

just a few questions.. nothing more to it. I enjoy all the sites.

======
and yes I change my posts often.. so always give me a few..it takes time for me to get the thoughts right

Last edited by direwolf-pgh; 2007-05-26 at 12:59 PM.
  #37  
Old 2007-05-26, 01:01 PM
Sebastian's Avatar
Sebastian Sebastian is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

First of all I'd like to state my opinion about donations. I think donations are good if they are used to cover server costs and the whole thing is transparent to users. The way this site handles this (listing server costs, etc.) makes it very credible. That's one of the reasons why I chose to seed my recordings here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisattva
If OUR website (zomb) wants to ask OUR members to send in a few extra dollars so OUR website can buy some gear that people who have already purchased tickets to concerts can use to go out to tape shows to release to the public, than where is the problem with this?
Of course you can do whatever you want on your site and with your site. I have a big problem with the way that site is run and the way you're asking for donations all over the place. That is why I did not want my recording on your site. I do not want to help you with your questionable ethics. That's all.

Also, I find it rather funny that soon after my initial seed here you posted the following:

However, the recording ended up on your site (obviously against your wishes) and then you go ahead and post some childish comment to basically tell all tapers to fuck off. Who's generating the negative energy here?

I have been discussing the issue with some other tapers since. Many of them are planning on taping the Smashing Pumpkins on the current tour with top equipment. We have come to the conclusion that it would be best to run our own private tracker for tapers only. In the end, fucking with the supply of recordings will be the only thing you guys seem to understand.

btw: Thanks for putting the recording on your private HTTP server for everyone to download (without questionable donation requests and idiot mods). I think that's a very good idea for people who don't know how to use Torrents. I don't have a problem with that. In fact, I appreciate it.
  #38  
Old 2007-05-26, 01:03 PM
bodhisattva's Avatar
bodhisattva bodhisattva is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh
its all good in my book - this is just discussion - and perhaps it will smooth over a few things.

are you worse than anyone else? I doubt you are worse than me - I used to be a pirate. Yar!

What is my major hang up? I need to up my post count!

im making light of this... because I agree this should not be a site-on-site bashup.

but somehow Zomb has raised some questions...

1. why is his recording at your site - with a free ratio ..when you sell ratio credits?

2. selling ratio credits = selling boots (imo)

3.
From my perspective this site, and some others, have allowed some trolls (some with obvious troll handles btw) to spread misconceptions and lies about our website and some people here took a big bite of the shit sandwhich.

This was tangled with the release, which is a totally different topic and I thought the topic was split due to this? Really though, if anyone feels people are wrong for sharing music they have downloaded, with anyone, anywhere, than like I have been saying over and over, rethink it, if you still feel the same, wait a few months, a few years, and than think over the situation again once you finally have some actual perspective and you'll see how foolish it was for a taper to even believe they could control where something went, and that they were the people setting up this entire dramatic scene.

We had nothing to do with creating these problems. Music will filter its way to ever dark corner of the net. There are countless sites hosting mp3s of his show, hubs, etc. And for anyone to use a personal vendetta against ONE person and say that 60,000+ members cannot upload the data the website is the lame thing going on here. Its not our job to police text files for peoples insane wishes for their release.

We delete mp3s, transcodes, shows that have obvious lossy sources. These are scene rules. There are no scene rules that say you need to bow down to the wishes of tapers. They could tell you not to listen to their shows at McDonalds, only TacoBell. Do you need to accomodate them? What they won't know won't hurt them? It shouldn't hurt them at all, because they shouldn't make comments like that, because they are unrealistic, and if they believe they can make comments like that and get upset when they are not followed to the T, its there problem and none of you should help them with their pity party!
  #39  
Old 2007-05-26, 01:12 PM
bodhisattva's Avatar
bodhisattva bodhisattva is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian
First of all I'd like to state my opinion about donations. I think donations are good if they are used to cover server costs and the whole thing is transparent to users. The way this site handles this (listing server costs, etc.) makes it very credible. That's one of the reasons why I chose to seed my recordings here.



Of course you can do whatever you want on your site and with your site. I have a big problem with the way that site is run and the way you're asking for donations all over the place. That is why I did not want my recording on your site. I do not want to help you with your questionable ethics. That's all.

Also, I find it rather funny that soon after my initial seed here you posted the following:



However, the recording ended up on your site (obviously against your wishes) and then you go ahead and post some childish comment to basically tell all tapers to fuck off. Who's generating the negative energy here?

I have been discussing the issue with some other tapers since. Many of them are planning on taping the Smashing Pumpkins on the current tour with top equipment. We have come to the conclusion that it would be best to run our own private tracker for tapers only. In the end, fucking with the supply of recordings will be the only thing you guys seem to understand.

btw: Thanks for putting the recording on your private HTTP server for everyone to download (without questionable donation requests and idiot mods). I think that's a very good idea for people who don't know how to use Torrents. I don't have a problem with that. In fact, I appreciate it.
Yes Sebastian, I changed my mind. I realized the members of our site don't need my own will or feelings controlling their usage of music. I realized it was wrong of me to try to control them in this fashion, much how you were, so I changed my mind. Call it free will. Just trying to break the cycle of "sound control".

Tapers can do what they want with the supply of recordings. You aren't holding us hostage, you are holding the community hostage. But do what you want, as I've stated, we didn't start this situation, but we are part of the snowball effect. You put the dominoes in place and let the first one fall when you wrote your source text.

thats nice you are ok with the http downloads. From the start I have only wanted to get this show out to the fans. Such a joyous thing, which is pretty much why I was too dejected to even speak about this initially, as to me, this put a black cloud over a experience which could have been very wonderful for all fans involved. All of the new TSP on ZOMB has been ratio free downlods from the start, meaning people who download them don't have the bytes counted against them, but their uploaded bytes count. So its win-win. But as of last night we made the entire tracker ratio free until Tuesday morning. It's our ZOMB memorial day SuckAThon.

Good luck with your tracker. If its just for a handful of people just put up a forum and run flippy's tracker. You won't have to code anything and you can have it up in minutes.
  #40  
Old 2007-05-26, 01:30 PM
bodhisattva's Avatar
bodhisattva bodhisattva is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh

1. why is his recording at your site - with a free ratio ..when you sell ratio credits?

2. selling ratio credits = selling boots (imo)

3.donations for recording equipment is a unique idea... im only curious how it pans out.

just a few questions.. nothing more to it. I enjoy all the sites.

======
and yes I change my posts often.. so always give me a few..it takes time for me to get the thoughts right
sorry I missed these questions in your initial post, I hadn't read it sinice you edited.

1. all of the new smashing pumpkins shows released that are uplaoded to our site are set to be ratio free. this was a decision I made a few weeks back. It was to celebrate the bands return.

2. we don't sell credits. we do not sell anything. there are no buy now buttons and at no point is any sale implied. we accept donations. if the site wants, it will give people a free gift of bytes on their upload stats. we reserve the right not to do this. do people usually receive the bonus, yes. I also give bytes (or remove bytes from peoples download stats) to people all of the time, who have not donated. we don't ban people who have a bad ratio, people can always connect and share on our tracker. but the bonus bytes do help people have a positive ratio which seems to be a reflection of their self image. but the credits are not neccessary to share music on our website.

3. i honestly don't see the issue with it, especially since its a site that is about sharing music. I am positive I am not the only person who has asked for donations for recording equipment. Its a big www. And I'm sure others who have did not have such language used against them, and they were likely given words of encouragement. regardless, our website is very excited about this, there has been alot of words of encouragement, and it will move foreward. I cannot guarantee, and can just about guess, that the initial recordings will be crap. The budget gear (minidisc - sony ecm717/719) can give good results if used properly. Its by no means professional, and its not meant to compete with anyone. Only to ad more sources to the scene, to enhance our own sites releases, and to give back to the community. Its a positive thing, and by no means should be viewed negatively, as there is no competition insinuated, planned, or wanted. we've managed to coexist for years (zomb torrents has been up since 2003) with no issues.
  #41  
Old 2007-05-26, 02:59 PM
freezer's Avatar
freezer freezer is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

So this entire thread is just because the site owner and admins at zomb are basically 'taper-unfriendly'???


Couldn't they have privately worked something out with the taper instead of disrespecting the source of the recording while they're passing it around?






Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisattva
Tapers can do what they want with the supply of recordings. You aren't holding us hostage, you are holding the community hostage. But do what you want, as I've stated, we didn't start this situation, but we are part of the snowball effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisattva
if you don't want this recording there it won't be there. personally, if this recording was done by you I don't want it on my site. I don't need your negative energy effecting my tunes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisattva
Requests by tapers ............. should be ignored.

Seems like someone got caught LYING and afterwards decided the best thing was to quickly rationalize a better answer to make it seem like there's no lie involved.

"I changed my mind....."




Say, if I say I don't want any of my recordings shared at zomb, does anyone think that the zomb admins will honor/respect the taper's wishes?

No, of course they won't.......


They'll probably demand more.




But it will be fun watching them zombies scramble when their recordings are offered at other torrent sites within hours of going up at their site. (The ones they plan to record with the equipment purchased with 'donations'....)


These threads and "discussions" will almost certainly assure that scenario will occur.


It's gonna be interesting to watch when the shoe is on the other foot.....










Looking forward to more of this discussion.......
  #42  
Old 2007-05-26, 03:03 PM
diggrd's Avatar
diggrd diggrd is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SWNH
Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

I gotta say that I agree 100% that once you share it any control is history. That is just a holdover from the days when you felt a need to have something rare in order to persuade a fellow taper to give up the goods or to keep your stuff away from the boot labels and the rare instance to uphold a performers request.

As far as your site, it's yours and you can do as you please but I personally have given 2 to 3 times the amount you have received in your gear campaign to this site alone, and expect nothing more than a thank you email and continued access to one of the best things life offers me free live music.

I have also given away old gear to fellow live music enthusiasts in the hopes of getting more shows out there. I would rather see a request for unused gear than a request for money to buy new stuff, and I realize you could be buying used stuff. I collect gadgets and lots of them collect dust after a while.

It is the internet so we try not to take what members with "troll" names say too seriously just as we won't assign a predilection for universal enlightenment to some others
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Quote:
Originally posted by frankenberry
anybody else who decides to call me a fuckhead troll newbie (you know who you are) should be made to listen to phish bootleg taped by a '73 led zeppelin taper
  #43  
Old 2007-05-26, 03:19 PM
bodhisattva's Avatar
bodhisattva bodhisattva is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
"I changed my mind....."
never changed your mind about something that has upset you?

I felt one way, later I felt another as I evaluated the situation closer.

Initially, I was quite dejected by a taper using such a great show to spread blind hatred.

They weren't making requests, they were dogging a community for no reason.

That was no friendly, and telling anonmyous people where they can share their data is not a rational request. A website should not have to honor such a request. Websites that do bend to inane requests like this do so because they choose to, not because they have to.

Tapers are not gods. For the most part tapers are great people, and I have known and helped many since the days of my youth following the Grateful Dead in the late 80's and early 90's. But tapers are not gods, and for a taper to get a complex like this it is wrong and it goes against the spirit of music and the spirit of sharing.

If others want to share music, why stop them? Why tell them you can't share with these people, they suck. makes no sense, and requests by releasers such as this are wrong and I still cannot logically understand why scenes based on sharing and spreading music have issues with people sharing music. Seems elitest to me, and its a damn shame that some groups feel they are so much better than others.

I don't think I am anything special, and for the most part every torrent site out there serves its purpose, I respect sites, their owners, and the people who make them happen.

As far as people who disrespect me for no apparent reason, I have no respect for them or their wishes.
  #44  
Old 2007-05-26, 03:25 PM
bodhisattva's Avatar
bodhisattva bodhisattva is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diggrd
As far as your site, it's yours and you can do as you please but I personally have given 2 to 3 times the amount you have received in your gear campaign to this site alone, and expect nothing more than a thank you email and continued access to one of the best things life offers me free live music.
Thats really cool. Great sites like this rely on dedicated members for support, and definitely in more ways than just financial.

Its not a competition, and thats why I am trying to exhibit here.

So what if our site has members pitch in to buy some budget gear. Its only to spread FREE LIVE MUSIC to the masses.

We are one of the only sites who sets up ratio free weekends where we do not count bytes downloaded, only bytes uploaded.

This allows everyone who downloads a torrent to have their ratio increase and not decrease as no bytes are counted against them.

These weekends allow everyone to improve their ratios, just by sharing bandwidth with others and getting FREE LIVE MUSIC. this is an advance I urge other sites to look into, as it really does help people get out ahead of the game.

--

On a sidenote, I feel I have done my share of PR with the users of TTD. This is a great site, not sure why there was anomosity at all. There was never an intention for anyone to start trouble for anyone here. This whole situation was elaborately setup actually, kudos to the masterminds.
  #45  
Old 2007-05-26, 04:38 PM
rhinowing rhinowing is offline
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Thumbs down Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

I don't see how anything like this helps the situation. It seems like all this message will do is piss off people and encourage them to donate less

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