The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?
 

Notices

Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2006-08-06, 03:02 PM
*dJ* *dJ* is offline
15.69 GB/31.69 GB/2.02
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Digitalized cassette, good job?

Recorded an fm show on a cassette some time ago, which I wanted to be digitalized.

I only have headphones out on the radiodeck, so I send the cassette to a friend, who digitalized it for me. I asked him for SA/FA and this is what I got from him:




It is kind of weird the carrier got lost during the transfer, but I had the same problem when I tried to digitalized the tape before (only got the carrier in the first snipset trial I did, then never seen it again).

I am wondering if this is good transfer.

FA from transfer I did (for comparison):


Also see:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ad.php?t=21675
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2006-08-06, 04:42 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Digitalized cassette, good job?

well one thing for sure it is lossless

I'll post in the other thread as well
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2006-08-07, 08:02 AM
*dJ* *dJ* is offline
15.69 GB/31.69 GB/2.02
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Re: Digitalized cassette, good job?

After the previous test transfer [by friend] the full tape is now transfered.

SA (original)

Sample (original)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.ph...5076756DB6B9EB

As you hear there is some [irritating] hiss/noise, so friend did some editing (noise reduction) and this is the result:

SA (noise reducted)

Sample (noise reducted)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.ph...D7E9A40D31C1B9

This track is one of the quieter tracks, where obvious the noisy is better auditable. Anyway the question is, although the edited version is not 100% genuine anymore, can this edited version still considered to be lossless??
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2006-08-07, 04:01 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Digitalized cassette, good job?

the noise-reduced version is awful. it doesn't look lossless, I'm not sure how that happened (?). It has that crazy over-nr windchime sound. keep the nr'ed version for yourself if you like the sound of that, but I wouldn't distribute it to anybody.

just share the noisy version, maybe somebody who's more adept with nr can tackle it in the future.
Attached Images
File Type: gif nr1.gif
( 303.9 KB, 139 views)
 
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2006-08-08, 07:47 AM
*dJ* *dJ* is offline
15.69 GB/31.69 GB/2.02
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Re: Digitalized cassette, good job?

The nr was set to 100%, so maybe bit overkill?

Another attempt was done with 50% noise reduction



Is this better, still lossless?

(don't have a sample of this at the moment..)

Last edited by *dJ*; 2006-08-08 at 07:55 AM.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2006-08-08, 08:09 AM
*dJ* *dJ* is offline
15.69 GB/31.69 GB/2.02
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Re: Digitalized cassette, good job?

50% nr version


http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.ph...9F1E965F0F8B40

opinions, please !
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2006-08-08, 08:26 AM
*dJ* *dJ* is offline
15.69 GB/31.69 GB/2.02
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Re: Digitalized cassette, good job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *dJ*
The nr was set to 100%, so maybe bit overkill?

Another attempt was done with 50% noise reduction



Is this better, still lossless?

(don't have a sample of this at the moment..)
I made a mistake this is 75% nr version!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2006-08-08, 03:04 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Digitalized cassette, good job?

even at 50% its totally ruining the sound... listen to the singer on the original vs 50%.

your noise profile, fft size and graph settings must be all wrong. also, the buzzing sound is very difficult to tackle with nr, it takes many tries to get it in sync (if its possible at all). trust me, I did some things I regret with nr when I first started using it, it took at least a year of experience before I started getting better results.

I want to somehow convince you not to use noise reduction, I feel it is a bad idea because of the type of noise on this. If you insist on using it at least give me a piece to take a new better noise sample from for you. It will still ruin the show a little but at least if I do it you will ruin the show less! please don't use nr on this.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2006-08-10, 02:46 PM
*dJ* *dJ* is offline
15.69 GB/31.69 GB/2.02
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Re: Digitalized cassette, good job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
even at 50% its totally ruining the sound... listen to the singer on the original vs 50%.

your noise profile, fft size and graph settings must be all wrong. also, the buzzing sound is very difficult to tackle with nr, it takes many tries to get it in sync (if its possible at all). trust me, I did some things I regret with nr when I first started using it, it took at least a year of experience before I started getting better results.

I want to somehow convince you not to use noise reduction, I feel it is a bad idea because of the type of noise on this. If you insist on using it at least give me a piece to take a new better noise sample from for you. It will still ruin the show a little but at least if I do it you will ruin the show less! please don't use nr on this.
The original file is kept for sure, but we figured listening to it is not "nice". Hence the noise reducted version for listening pleasure and [maybe] trading for people who prefer it, but the question is can this be traded or is it lossy??

Here a link to full track (only have flac version, hope that doesn't matter):
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NA7SLLVD
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2006-08-13, 10:22 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Digitalized cassette, good job?

it can be traded as it is, it is not lossy.

the track you provided does not have a single place to take a noise sample from, there is music all the way through!

the main problem of the noise is the buzzing sound, this cannot be tacked with normal noise reduction.

the buzzing comes from the red vertical "posts" visible in spectral view (pictured below). I have a method to safely eliminate this, but each and every one would have to be done manually there is no way to automate it. if you really love this show, you could give it a try but it would most likely take minimum a year of your time depending on how long the total show is to eliminate each "red post" individually!
Attached Images
File Type: gif muse1.gif
( 142.2 KB, 91 views)
 
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #11  
Old 2006-09-26, 08:29 PM
jellybeard999 jellybeard999 is offline
196.17 GB/79.34 GB/0.40
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Re: Digitalized cassette, good job?

lol about 60 of those posts, in each channel, for every second of the show, to remove manually

youd have to REALLY love it lol
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
ripping from cassette - pattison2 Technobabble 5 2008-06-03 01:12 PM
Question about VHS cassette - Crotchy Technobabble 4 2007-02-06 07:39 PM
Just multi-gen cassette ? - ffooky Lossy or Lossless? 10 2005-08-13 09:20 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts