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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2005-08-01, 11:42 AM
ffooky ffooky is offline
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Just multi-gen cassette ?

This is from Echo & The Bunnymen 1979-09-16 and the lineage given is Soundboard - Cassette - ? - CD - EAC - Nero Wave Editor (pitch corrected) - CD - EAC - Flac (level 6)

I have the same recording on an LP which sounds a lot crisper. Is the lack of higher frequencies here attributable to being a multigen cassette source, wrongly applied Dolby at some stage or something else ? The SA is a little bit blocky when zoomed in but the FA displays the stairsteps (throughout the file) that has been associated here with ATRAC-R. Any ideas ?
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File Type: pdf SA.pdf
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File Type: pdf zoomed_SA.pdf
( 446.7 KB, 26 views)
 
File Type: pdf FA.pdf
( 434.9 KB, 16 views)
 
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  #2  
Old 2005-08-01, 11:54 AM
Hiroshi
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Re: Just multi-gen cassette ?

how does copying cassette cause high frequency loss? i think this is myth among hopeful collectors.
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  #3  
Old 2005-08-01, 01:46 PM
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range_hood range_hood is offline
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Re: Just multi-gen cassette ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiroshi
how does copying cassette cause high frequency loss? i think this is myth among hopeful collectors.
Unless you hit the NR button Iīd say you gain high frequencies (hiss). Though you could say you loose the high frequencies of the recorded music if the hiss gets out of hand and buries the music.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffooky
This is from Echo & The Bunnymen 1979-09-16 and the lineage given is Soundboard - Cassette - ? - CD - EAC - Nero Wave Editor (pitch corrected) - CD - EAC - Flac (level 6)
What kind of pitch correction was applied.
If you transponse to a lower tone pitch you will also transpose the cutoff you normally donīt see (on lossless recordings). Frequency response of red book standard audio is limited to 22kHz.
Red Book Standard


This looks somewhat lossy. Could you do a cool edit sa of 2 secs.
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  #4  
Old 2005-08-01, 01:55 PM
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Re: Just multi-gen cassette ?

in zoomed_sa.pdf you can really see blocks, no amount of copying cassettes can create these! This is lossy.
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  #5  
Old 2005-08-01, 02:28 PM
ffooky ffooky is offline
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Re: Just multi-gen cassette ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by range_hood
This looks somewhat lossy. Could you do a cool edit sa of 2 secs.
Nope sorry, I'm running a crippled OS :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
in zoomed_sa.pdf you can really see blocks, no amount of copying cassettes can create these! This is lossy.
That's what I suspected and I posted screenshots to the DIME mods as soon as the first track completed but their experts are unavailable at the mo so the torrent's still running. It's a real pity because the same seeder is offering the Teardrop Explodes set from the same night but the lineage is the same. If the consensus here is that it's lossy I'll post shots to the threads themselves.
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  #6  
Old 2005-08-11, 05:26 PM
delay delay is offline
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Re: Just multi-gen cassette ?

Having had downloaded both sets prior to reading this thread, allow me to offer my 2 second takes on things: first, a little Echo...
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File Type: gif saechocc.gif
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File Type: gif saechobw.gif
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  #7  
Old 2005-08-11, 05:28 PM
delay delay is offline
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Re: Just multi-gen cassette ?

And now for some Teardrops...
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File Type: gif satearcc.gif
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File Type: gif satearbw.gif
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  #8  
Old 2005-08-12, 01:54 AM
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Re: Just multi-gen cassette ?

I'd call that lossy... both of them
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  #9  
Old 2005-08-12, 07:16 PM
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ssamadhi97 ssamadhi97 is offline
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Re: Just multi-gen cassette ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiroshi
how does copying cassette cause high frequency loss? i think this is myth among hopeful collectors.
Not at all. Cassettes generally cannot store the full bandwidth of an audio cd, as far as I know / remember most usually roll off softly from 16 to 19 kHz.
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  #10  
Old 2005-08-12, 07:46 PM
ffooky ffooky is offline
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Re: Just multi-gen cassette ?

ssamadhi, do you have an opinion on the lossiness or otherwise of these shows ?
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  #11  
Old 2005-08-13, 09:20 AM
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ssamadhi97 ssamadhi97 is offline
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Re: Just multi-gen cassette ?

Yes, so far I agree with Five's assessment, there's definitely lossiness going on there.

Not sure whether it's mp3 or md though. The uneven cutoff could suggest md or maybe a rather crappy mp3 encoder? I'd have to take a closer look at an audio clip of this myself..
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