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  #16  
Old 2004-12-30, 04:51 AM
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkishlyevil
Cool Edit.
umm... I don't see much above 16kHz... can you zoom in on 1.5-3 seconds, again with CEP spectral?

Also, it would help to see the cep frequency analysis (under "analyze"). also, thought I'd mention that you can screencap just the current window using Alt+Print Screen
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  #17  
Old 2004-12-30, 10:51 AM
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
CEP/Audition is the best for sure... EAC has proven not very reliable. We need a freeware solution for people, too I'm thinking up a solution for this.
AnalFreq really is the best, and it's free, though it can be hard to find online anymore.

I wonder if we should host the executable here on our site.
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  #18  
Old 2004-12-30, 10:51 AM
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

Might I ask, what exactly is the recording we're talking about, what's the advertised lineage, and when was it recorded?
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  #19  
Old 2004-12-30, 10:52 AM
Punkishlyevil Punkishlyevil is offline
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

First picture is Spectral Analysis zoomed in.
Second is Frequency Analysis on that same zoomed in part.
Thir is Frequency Analysis of the whole song.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Cool Edit Zoomed In.jpg
( 125.0 KB, 75 views)
 
File Type: jpg Cool Edit FreqAnalysis (Clip).jpg
( 29.5 KB, 12 views)
 
File Type: jpg Cool Edit FreqAnalysis (Full).jpg
( 26.8 KB, 11 views)
 
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  #20  
Old 2004-12-30, 10:53 AM
Punkishlyevil Punkishlyevil is offline
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDawg
Might I ask, what exactly is the recording we're talking about, what's the advertised lineage, and when was it recorded?
The Smashing Pumpkins
1999/04/19 - Ogden Theater; Denver, CO, US

Source: MiniDisc Master ( SM58>MZR30 )> CDR
Conversion: CDR>Xing AudioCatalyst>WAV>FLAC
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  #21  
Old 2004-12-30, 11:06 AM
fatoldpig fatoldpig is offline
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkishlyevil
Source: MiniDisc Master ( SM58>MZR30
that's explains it. minidisk will have freq drop after 16-18K
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  #22  
Old 2004-12-30, 11:08 AM
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

Yeah, it looks like a true MD, not an mp3. I am wondering about that compression rate, because it's really only possible if the source is mono. Would someone record this into mono? Maybe a single mic? Can you confirm that it's indeed a mono source?
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  #23  
Old 2004-12-30, 11:27 AM
Punkishlyevil Punkishlyevil is offline
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

Looks mono to me. Heres a picture of the waveform.
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  #24  
Old 2004-12-30, 01:09 PM
Punkishlyevil Punkishlyevil is offline
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

So is this recording shareable?
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  #25  
Old 2004-12-30, 04:31 PM
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

If it's an SM58 then it'll be mono - it's Shure's classic vocal mic. The frequency analysis looks harsher than typical MD, but I guess an R30 will be using the oldest ATRAC codec which may explain it. The following will also have a big influence I think:

The mic's frequency response is only 50-15,000 Hz.
http://www.jbsmusic.co.uk/validate07...orig_rowid=528

Should be fine for seeding?
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  #26  
Old 2004-12-30, 05:11 PM
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

If you want to check if it's mono or not, copy the left channel to a new CEP window, then copy the right channel and mix-paste it out of phase (use overlap(mix) and check the "invert" box). If the left is identical to the right, you will get a perfectly flat line, and the recording is therefore mono.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkishlyevil
So is this recording shareable?
MD is an acceptable source... the only thing that's touchy is the Xing software used for extraction. This was a few years back, who knows if that one CDR copied off the DAT still works or even exists. Or, for that matter, if the DAT has been taped over by now. I'd say this is okay to share, but RainDawg gets the final word on this.
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  #27  
Old 2004-12-30, 05:23 PM
h_vargas
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

also, it maybe noteworthy that for a MD recorder, you can record in what's called (i believe) LP2 mode - which will produce a mono recording (and give twice the recording length on a disc, if i remember correctly), regardless of whether or not stereo mic(s) were used. plus, since it's a MD source, chances are that it underwent an analog transfer from MD > CDR... the source info given doesn't specify equipment used, but it's quite possible a cheapo soundcard going Mic or Line In was used.
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  #28  
Old 2004-12-30, 05:30 PM
Punkishlyevil Punkishlyevil is offline
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

I don't really plan on seeding it here becasue the quality is so bad compared to other shows that have almost exact setlists from the same tour. I do plan on sharing it in the lossless TSP/Zwan hub if anyone really wants it though. But the hub doesn't want things that are sourced from mp3s or anything like that, so I figured this would be a great place to get some info because there seems to be some experts here! As the thread title says, we were most confused about the size of the files (an 8 and a half minute song that is only 23.7 MB seems like a good reason to be confused if you don't know too much about this sort of thing). Thanks a lot for the help. I really appreciate it, and I'm sure the rest of the people in the hub will too.
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  #29  
Old 2004-12-30, 07:53 PM
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

looks like the worst case to me (mono AND mp3). As opposed to noise reduction, mp3 cuts a lot of high frequency content when masked by lower frequencies.

Sure, same goes for md to a lesser extent, but this recording simply doesn't really look like md to me. Not even mdlp.


And I gotta agree with Five: the Xing AudioCatalyst software in the lineage is definitely suspicious as well - heh, I had the same kind of fun with some guy who ripped CDRs for me using some Real software. I educated him about EAC and got some perfectly fine copies as replacement.
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  #30  
Old 2004-12-31, 06:04 AM
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Re: Unrealistic Flac compression

Quote:
Originally Posted by h_vargas
also, it maybe noteworthy that for a MD recorder, you can record in what's called (i believe) LP2 mode - which will produce a mono recording (and give twice the recording length on a disc, if i remember correctly), regardless of whether or not stereo mic(s) were used.
Mono and LP2 are completely different. Mono continues to use 292kbps, but doubles capacity by only recording one channel. LP2 doubles capacity by recording in stereo at 132kbps (not 146kbps - some dummy data is needed to stay compatible with SP players). The MZ-R30 used here is very old and is not capable of LP2, though can do mono.

http://www.minidisc.org
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