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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2005-08-21, 01:58 PM
corsair corsair is offline
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Lossy or 32Khz DAT

I have a recording whose source is supposed to be going
DPA 4061 > Sony TCD-D8.

However, after conducting some test with both AnalFreq,
and Spectral Analysis with EAC. I'm not so sure
if this is mp3 source or just a case of 32KHz DAT compression...
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File Type: jpg Spectral.jpg
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File Type: jpg Freq.jpg
( 38.1 KB, 197 views)
 
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  #2  
Old 2005-08-21, 02:32 PM
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range_hood range_hood is offline
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

From what I can see here:

EACs spectral view is bad.
The frequency response goes up to about 16-17kHz, so this could be 32kHz DAT (theoretically frequency response is half of the sampling rate).
But it also could be mp3, from what we have.

Get Cool edit, take spectral shots of about 2 seconds and post it in png format or at least gif.

Spotting Lossy Sources--links inside
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  #3  
Old 2005-08-21, 03:15 PM
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

agreed, hard to see from these pics. still could go either way
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  #4  
Old 2005-08-21, 09:23 PM
corsair corsair is offline
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

Ok... here's what I did after downloading and installing CoolEdit 2k.

I zoomed in onto the wav, till its only ~ 2secs, and did a spectral view.
Correct me if I'm doing it wrong
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  #5  
Old 2005-08-22, 05:31 AM
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range_hood range_hood is offline
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

Could you post just the spectral pictures so you do not have to resize the picture? I think one channel is enough on this one.

If you want you can upload a 10 second sample on http://www.yousendit.com/ for further investigation. Just fill in your e-mail address and post the link to the file.
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  #6  
Old 2005-08-22, 05:35 AM
corsair corsair is offline
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

Something seems to be not right with my spectral picture...
Why is it only in greyscale, while on the rest of website, I see multi colors?
Can you enlighten me on the settings to change in CE Pro?

I'll get home later and re-do the image and upload a sample to you.
Thanks alot!
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  #7  
Old 2005-08-22, 08:08 AM
corsair corsair is offline
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

Ok.. I've redone the spectral views..
I've included 2 samples... each is from different track.

Thanks!
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File Type: png sa_1.png
( 223.2 KB, 151 views)
 
File Type: png sa_2.png
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  #8  
Old 2005-08-22, 10:12 AM
corsair corsair is offline
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

Link to the sample:

http://s24.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1...G3DJ2YRIM28U7O
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  #9  
Old 2005-08-22, 10:16 AM
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range_hood range_hood is offline
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

Iīm not that experienced in 32 kHz Dats, so I just try.

Iīve found this in my collection:
nirvana1988-12-21
ANA(x) > DAT(1)@32khz > CDR(5) > EAC > WAV > FLAC > shntool > flac


Converted this to 320kbps mp3 for comparison it almost looks the same in coloured spectral analysis.







Switching to b/w mode and some sort of difference is noticable. Look at the artificial looking cut at 16 kHz (mp3 pic).






On the last one the y-axis is also zoomed. In the mp3 pic you can see this tiny, little blocks around the cutoff. This is an indicator for a lossy encoded audiofile - this time.




.
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  #10  
Old 2005-08-22, 11:40 AM
corsair corsair is offline
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

This is how mine looked like...after zooming in up close...

Seems more like a 32khz DAT after all.
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  #11  
Old 2005-08-22, 11:49 AM
corsair corsair is offline
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

I decided to encode my wav file to mp3 320Khz. Wow...the initial SA, when its NOT black & white looks almost the same. I did the same zoom in, B&W.. then I saw the difference..

This thread makes a pretty good documentation for 32khz dATs heheh,
or are we doing it the wrong way
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  #12  
Old 2005-08-22, 11:56 AM
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

This is great stuff. I know Five wants to write a document all about SA and FA sometime so I'm sure he just loves all this information. (And, the way you have laid it out makes it really easy to read and see all the differences.)
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  #13  
Old 2005-08-22, 12:55 PM
corsair corsair is offline
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

There is another point I want to add too. Its that, at first glance, it might not be obvious. U might need to move along the wav line and observe carefully. On a 32khz dat source, the surface should not have sudden trough or peaks... while on a mp3 source, the surface is not as smooth in a straight line, with chunks here and there at times.

More illustration.
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File Type: png DAT32.png
( 63.1 KB, 111 views)
 
File Type: png sa(mp3).png
( 72.6 KB, 100 views)
 
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  #14  
Old 2005-08-22, 03:31 PM
thornhill
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

ive got some screenshots of some stuff im 99% sure is sourced from 32k dat. lineage is CSB's > Sony PCM 1 > Fostex D5 > Tascam cdrw5000 > CD. theres a couple digipops in the first SA next to the yellow cursor so disregard those (unless of course you think its something of significance).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SA.jpg
( 68.6 KB, 92 views)
 
File Type: jpg FA.jpg
( 58.5 KB, 86 views)
 
File Type: jpg SA (1.5 sec).jpg
( 102.7 KB, 130 views)
 
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  #15  
Old 2005-08-22, 07:10 PM
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range_hood range_hood is offline
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Re: Lossy or 32Khz DAT

thanks for the input thornhill. the nirvana source didntīt really have that much frequency response in the higher frequencies.
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