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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2005-08-20, 09:01 PM
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MMM Records

What is lower than a bootlegger? How about an mp3 bootlegger.
Check out this SG clip taken from an EAC copy of Frank Zappa 1973-11-18
from the bootleg 'Ontario Slime' "Moustache's Magic Music" (MMM) Records,
(MMM-04-37). I think if we find one boot mp3 than all boots from that label should be automatically suspect. Could anyone contribute a second opinion on this one, please? (sorry I clipped off the timescale, just a couple of seconds or so).
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Last edited by guygee; 2005-08-20 at 09:08 PM.
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  #2  
Old 2005-08-20, 09:11 PM
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Re: MMM Records

This looks no good.
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  #3  
Old 2005-08-20, 09:50 PM
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Re: MMM Records

Here is a more proper view, Track 01, taken with Soundforge 8.0. Could we agree, an mp3 for sure?
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  #4  
Old 2005-08-20, 10:32 PM
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Re: MMM Records

doesn't look good at all to me

also, there's at least one metallica silver out there which is mp3 sourced like this one.
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  #5  
Old 2005-08-20, 10:40 PM
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Re: MMM Records

I think Five or ssamadhi97 will say mp3 for sure (those blocks ). Freezer will, of course, feel he has proven his point about Silver CDs.
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  #6  
Old 2005-08-21, 12:15 AM
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Re: MMM Records

OK, I also ran a frequency analysis, using window size 4096, on the entire Track 01. What is going on with this track?
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  #7  
Old 2005-08-21, 12:47 AM
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Re: MMM Records

damn, thats a real strange looking dip there on the FA...
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  #8  
Old 2005-08-21, 12:58 AM
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Re: MMM Records

Quote:
Originally Posted by guygee
What is lower than a bootlegger? How about an mp3 bootlegger.
Check out this SG clip taken from an EAC copy of Frank Zappa 1973-11-18
from the bootleg 'Ontario Slime' "Moustache's Magic Music" (MMM) Records,
(MMM-04-37).
Ask for your money back, guygee. Demand a refund. Write MMM and tell 'em who you are. Send 'em a 20 page letter detailing the difference between mp3, shn, flac and wav files. They probably just don't know any better.

I'm "sure" they'll want to give you complete customer satisfaction.



Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
I think Five or ssamadhi97 will say mp3 for sure (those blocks ). Freezer will, of course, feel he has proven his point about Silver CDs.
Lynne, of course you might consider letting this poor bootlegger know how and where he can get better quality material for free. We don't want them dirty ol' mp3 bootlegs to get confused with "good" boots with 'real lineage' - do we, hmmmm?

Especially since those "original silver" boots can last over 100 years.






And how could an mp3 of a Zappa show get into common circulation? Who would do such a thing as to pass off an mp3 of a FZ show anyway??? Not a legitimate Zappa collector?
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  #9  
Old 2005-08-21, 01:00 AM
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Re: MMM Records

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
Ask for your money back, guygee. Demand a refund. Write MMM and tell 'em who you are. Send 'em a 20 page letter detailing the difference between mp3, shn, flac and wav files. They probably just don't know any better.

I'm "sure" they'll want to give you complete customer satisfaction.
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  #10  
Old 2005-08-21, 01:18 AM
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Re: MMM Records

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
Lynne, of course you might consider letting this poor bootlegger know how and where he can get better quality material for free. We don't want them dirty ol' mp3 bootlegs to get confused with "good" boots with 'real lineage' - do we, hmmmm?

Especially since those "original silver" boots can last over 100 years.


I'll be sure to email him tomorrow, freezer. I wouldn't want this guy to continue to spead mp3 sourced bootlegs!

Freezer, I have to say that the reason I enjoy you so much is because you really *do* make sense. However, you are talking about a life without internet sometimes. We have to deal with reality now, and internet and bittorrent are what is real right now. So, these bootleggers exist.... bt exists..... ebay exists..... tapers exist..... traders exist..... it's all about trying to figure out how to deal with all these real things right now. I don't think there is a right answer. And if there were a right answer, it would require everyone agreeing and doing the same thing. I think we know that isn't going to happen. So, most sites try their best to deal with the reality in the best way possible. Right now, our way is to try to liberate bootlegged shows and get them out to people so people don't need to buy them. And, we also want to give tapers a way to get shows out to the masses so bootleggers lose. I think, at the moment, perhaps neither side is really winning. So, we keep trying.

If you have a better idea that could really work, spell it out.
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  #11  
Old 2005-08-21, 01:22 AM
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Re: MMM Records

Hey guys, this is being torrented right now over here:

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=55960

Just trying to figure out if it is actually an mp3, or just some very bad "remastering" being done by some booter, and in the process trying to save a bunch of people from downloading and trading mp3's, maybe right back at me.

And for the sake of TTD, a warning that any seeds of MMM boots could be mp3-sourced, so be cautious of that "label".

Is that guy on the other site trolling when he says, "The audio quality is excellent!! Easily one of the better sounding Zappa boots to come down the pike in awhile."??

Like, do I trust "econeywaaa"?

It is good to get to know who to trust and who not to trust.
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  #12  
Old 2005-08-21, 01:32 AM
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Re: MMM Records

I would hit the Report this Post button. It sounds like someone thinks the Mods already know what is up. No need for us to reanalyze it (and doesn't DIME need to analyze it themselves anyway? I'd love to hear what they had to say back then).
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  #13  
Old 2005-08-21, 01:47 AM
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Re: MMM Records

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
If you have a better idea that could really work, spell it out.
Just say no to bootlegs.





Oh, yeah, and be honest with each other.

The hobby is based on trust. Make it so, Number One.

Call it bullshit when you see that it's bullshit.

If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck and it looks like a duck and it smells like a duck, goddamit it must be a duck. Say so.

Last edited by freezer; 2005-08-21 at 01:55 AM.
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  #14  
Old 2005-08-21, 02:04 AM
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Re: MMM Records

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
I would hit the Report this Post button. It sounds like someone thinks the Mods already know what is up. No need for us to reanalyze it (and doesn't DIME need to analyze it themselves anyway? I'd love to hear what they had to say back then).
I guess it is just one of those "soundforge workout" evenings

I sent DIME the same as I sent here. They are trying to sort through it in their own way, which is in private, instead of in public. I am not sure I agree with that philosopy, so I brought it here. Sorry if that is bad form, but I know that there are some people here that are good at this sort of analysis, so I go through these little exercises, in part, to learn from others. Anyone reading this thread can learn something from it as well.

Anyways, what goes around comes around, so let's knock the worst stuff out of the loop forever. If "MMM" becomes widely known as mp3 booters, I would think it would save the TTD mods some trouble if somebody tries to seed their stuff here.

Last edited by guygee; 2005-08-21 at 02:12 AM.
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  #15  
Old 2005-08-21, 02:05 AM
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Re: MMM Records

quack quack....
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