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#31
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
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FWIW, I'm using RecordNow Max too and getting perfect results and great playability (is that a word?). As far as the .ifo and .bup changing, I obviously don't love the idea, as I'm an anal perfectionist who likes the md5's to check exactly... but these are just pointers and at the end of the day do not change the 'content' of the DVD, right? (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm more of an audio guy in intellect) With that said, if the VOBs pass md5, then really you don't have a matching fileset, but you have the important/vital data, right? Someone mentioned this issue being the SBE's of the video world and while the pointers to basically serve the same purpose--in my understanding--the editing of the ifo and bup files do not produce artifacts that degrade the watching/listening experience as SBE's do in the case of clicks between tracks on CD-A. So I agree, but to a varying degree best, Jim No members have liked this post.
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#32
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
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Could a faulty .ifo file introduce a pause/stalling of approximately 2 seconds between chapters on a DVD or would that be caused by something different? I have some DVDs with this happening. Would love to be able to correct it. And another thing: If Toast/Nero actually does good to some DVDs .ifo and .bup files - I would not like to use a burning app that doesn't - but then again that's the whole basis of this discussion and I'm still puzzled... No members have liked this post.
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#33
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
what i would like is to see a side-by-side comparison of the BUPs/IFOs from pre- and post-burning with these programs that do something to change the files. from what i know, IFO files generally are like "cue sheets" (well, they're info files to be precise) that tell a DVD player where chapter points are, what language(s) are on the DVD, region info, what functions are/aren't disabled on the remote control, blah blah.
so, i'd be interested to look at a side-by-side of the altered IFO vs. the original IFO, if someone cares to take the time to post them. (they would be very small files, since they're essentially text files of sorts... so it wouldn't take foreever to upload them to a server or anything.) on another note, i will reiterate: RecordNow Max rules. the only time i use Nero to burn DVDs is when i'm burning a test DVD on a RW disc, because Nero doesn't make me erase the disc, i can just burn over the existing data (RecordNow won't let me do that). No members have liked this post.
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#34
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
Resurrecting this from the dead, with actual md5s to show from a recently torrented show, Phish 1997-02-18.
I burned disc 1 using DVD-ROM(UDF) with Toast Titanium. The .bup and .ifo files changed. I'm wondering of someone else can confirm this. original md5s (folder hierarchy is different but that doesn't matter): 000103302beea4d31408662447337e98 *set I\VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.BUP 000103302beea4d31408662447337e98 *set I\VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.IFO c27fd02800c1a22261692bae9eb61f75 *set I\VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.VOB 18ef947fbdf8cd5479154a052a68219c *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.BUP 18ef947fbdf8cd5479154a052a68219c *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO 2d682bd0f81c8b84e08b9d56f309446d *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.VOB 9b152723abdf8755c7b467bb4ff8482c *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB a6014b3017207d5dc67036bdeebeea17 *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.VOB 09ecf641a66e64129521650c9e7420e2 *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.VOB c095f88e1a3a53ef53d7072d2648e2e8 *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.VOB 99c35d80f37c6618aa9c56b5fdb3a231 *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.VOB 07c1e31de135bc0102e0da877acdca3c *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_02_0.BUP 07c1e31de135bc0102e0da877acdca3c *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_02_0.IFO c27fd02800c1a22261692bae9eb61f75 *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_02_0.VOB 8e147fa360421cf2f4d138d7f9d68efc *set I\VIDEO_TS\VTS_02_1.VOB md5s from the burned disc, only .bup and .ifo different: b442bc0bd80e36a0e3fb0462a38cd27d *VIDEO_TS.BUP b442bc0bd80e36a0e3fb0462a38cd27d *VIDEO_TS.IFO c27fd02800c1a22261692bae9eb61f75 *VIDEO_TS.VOB 18ef947fbdf8cd5479154a052a68219c *VTS_01_0.BUP 18ef947fbdf8cd5479154a052a68219c *VTS_01_0.IFO 2d682bd0f81c8b84e08b9d56f309446d *VTS_01_0.VOB 9b152723abdf8755c7b467bb4ff8482c *VTS_01_1.VOB a6014b3017207d5dc67036bdeebeea17 *VTS_01_2.VOB 09ecf641a66e64129521650c9e7420e2 *VTS_01_3.VOB c095f88e1a3a53ef53d7072d2648e2e8 *VTS_01_4.VOB 99c35d80f37c6618aa9c56b5fdb3a231 *VTS_01_5.VOB 07c1e31de135bc0102e0da877acdca3c *VTS_02_0.BUP 07c1e31de135bc0102e0da877acdca3c *VTS_02_0.IFO c27fd02800c1a22261692bae9eb61f75 *VTS_02_0.VOB 8e147fa360421cf2f4d138d7f9d68efc *VTS_02_1.VOB It would be great if someone could confirm this with Toast and especially Nero. I'm emailing the seeder to see if he ripped these files off a data DVD or a "playable" DVD (ie burned with Nero or Toast DVD-ROM(UDF)). This may get to the root of the problem.
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I was saying Boo-urns. No members have liked this post.
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#35
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
I also contacted the seeder to see whether he seeded "data" files or whether he seeded a rip from a "playable" DVD.
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I was saying Boo-urns. No members have liked this post.
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#36
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
I noticed the same thing recently when I sent two DVDs to a guy in Holland... he doesn't have a DVD burner so it was very, very important that I burn a playable DVD for him so he could play it on his standalone. One was taken from a video DVD, when I burned that one I generated .md5 checksums from it and they matched exactly. The other was downloaded from STG and when I burned it the BUP and IFO were different but the VOBs were identical. I emailed the guy the artwork, .txt files and .md5s. The disc with the wrong checksums would be considered bastardized in some way, but are they really?
this was posted over here: Quote:
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Checksums Demystified | ask for help in Technobabble thetradersden.org | ttd recommended free software/freeware webring shntool tlh eac foobar2000 spek audacity cdwave vlc Quote:
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#37
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
I think as long as the .vob files are the same it probably doesn't make any difference. It's pretty annoying for me being an "md5 freak" and all. It seems like there's no way around this. I'm just going to keep the people I trade with informed if I'm giving them a disc with a different .bup and .ifo than the downloaded one.
I think an md5 of the entire contents' md5 is necessary to make sure the download is correct, but I don't think people should swet the altered files. For me it happens very infrequently, and I make a note of it in my records.
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I was saying Boo-urns. No members have liked this post.
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#38
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
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Given that you've made notes about this, have you noticed any patterns in which DVDs have their IFO files modified when burning to DVD? i.e. do you know which DVD authoring programs were used for those DVDs? If anyone has a set of "before" and "after" IFO files that are changed by Nero or Toast, I would be very interested in getting a copy to analyse. No members have liked this post.
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#39
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
4c-
I can post the .ifo from the discs I burned of Phish 2.18.97 but I don't have the original file anymore.
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I was saying Boo-urns. No members have liked this post.
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#40
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
Question to Mac folks: can you read a data DVD (containing i.e. flacs, txts, jpgs) burnt under Windows? I think that such disc is readable without any problem, but I like to be sure. I had once a trade with a Mac guy who cliamed that he cannot read a "PC DVD disc". Of course the disc was burnt correctly - checked with md5 and CDCheck.
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#41
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
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I think they would only be useful if I had both the "before" and "after" IFOs. It's not convenient, but maybe one solution would be to create a ZIP file containing the original downloaded IFO files, and add that zip file to the DVD (outside of the VIDEO_TS folder) before burning. That way, you would be able to restore the original downloaded files to your HD, and compare the MD5 checksums, without the need for burning two copies of the show. No members have liked this post.
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#42
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
2-19-97 was seeded by SYF8. I can PM him and see if we can get the ifo files. Or, if someone has Azureus, then you can just grab those files off the torrent. Actually, I'm doing that now and I'll post them here.
As for reading a DVD written by a PC on a Mac, I have been able too. I think what matters is how it is burned. I know in Toast, when I make a data DVD (for flacs, etc), I choose the Advanced tab and hit "Mac & PC". But, there is another option for "Mac Only". Perhaps the person who says he can't read a PC produced DVD once got one that was written wrong.
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ABT Seeding Policy | ABT Seeding Guide | VBT Seeding Policy | VBT Seeding Guide Software Links HERE | FAQ is HERE | Technobabble forum is HERE. If your port number is in red, you are firewalled! How to Set Up Your Router (so you aren't firewalled) and How to Port Forward on Windows XP Five's Checksums Demystified - everything and anything you want to know about checksums
On a Mac? Get XLD to rip your CDs. Please see this guide - X Lossless Decoder (XLD): How to create flawless CD rips on Mac OS X No members have liked this post.
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#43
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
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I don't have a BT client that lets me to selectively download files, so I can't do it myself. gsmyth79 - can you post the modified IFO files? No members have liked this post.
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#44
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
I've now compared the "VIDEO_TS.IFO" file from the DVD burned using toast by GSMYTHE (thanks to Graham for a copy of the file) with the original torrented on this site.
There is only one byte in the IFO file which is different between the two versions - but this is obviously enough to change the MD5 checksums. The difference is in the VMG_PTT_SRPT (Video Manager Title Play Map Table) and is the value of the "Title set starting sector" for title 1. What that means is that there is absolutely no difference in the content of the two DVDs, just that Toast is positioning the files on the DVD in a different way to that predicted by the DVD authoring program (or by the first program to burn those files to DVD). Because of that, it has needed to adjust one of the sector pointers in the VIDEO_TS.IFO file for hardware players to still play it properly. You could compare this problem with MD5 checksums of WAV files - two WAV files could contain slightly different headers (and therefore have different MD5 checksums), but the PCM data inside the WAV file (the "FLAC fingerprint" or "shntool MD5") could be identical. So the solution would be to calculate MD5 checksums of just the important data inside the IFO and VOB files - but that's not an easy thing to do, especially as the DVD specifications are not published. No members have liked this post.
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#45
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Re: Standards for physically trading and b&p'ing DVDs?
Darn, I forgot to post those ifos for you. Sorry.
Very interesting what went on. But, as you said, a solution to it is difficult. Too bad we don't have something similar to shntool md5s for them.
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ABT Seeding Policy | ABT Seeding Guide | VBT Seeding Policy | VBT Seeding Guide Software Links HERE | FAQ is HERE | Technobabble forum is HERE. If your port number is in red, you are firewalled! How to Set Up Your Router (so you aren't firewalled) and How to Port Forward on Windows XP Five's Checksums Demystified - everything and anything you want to know about checksums
On a Mac? Get XLD to rip your CDs. Please see this guide - X Lossless Decoder (XLD): How to create flawless CD rips on Mac OS X No members have liked this post.
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