FLAC, SHN, Conversions, etc...A virtual potpourri

[Greengoat]

Ok ran db and converted back down to flac. It failed the md5. So I took a look at the original flac file and the new one. They were different sizes. So I looked at the compression ratio, and the original was 4:1, while the new one was 3:1. Unfortunatly I had db set on "High" compression for flac. It only has low, medium and high settings, no 1-8. But the new file was only a little over 2megs larger, not bad for coming down from a 494mb wav file.

I was going to try and use flac frontend to encode it at 8, to see if that would bring the file back down to 121megs, but then remembered the ffp. Aslong as the new file passes the fingerprints, it is fine. So I ran the new file through flac frontend and they were the same.

Here is the output

se2001-06-13npr.flac:b6a265525c1e33ca70fac17d26ef7c10

[RainDawg]

Well, the problems I experienced with dbPowerAmp were with files done in a large batch, not a single file at a time. I'm not sure what caused it to freak out, but it could have been sector boundary errors, which this file does not contain according to the shntool output you posted. They could have also addressed issues with it in recent versions, it's been a while since I've used it, and I knew a lot less about this stuff than I did before.

Maybe you could do a similar test with a set that is NOT SB aligned, and see what the results are?

Again, I'm not sure what the problem with that software was, and back then I really didn't have the knowledge to test it...I just know that somehow the files got screwed up after using it (it could have been user error, of course )

[JayDub]

Is there any way to change the compression level (from 5) when converting from .wav to .flac?

I just installed foobar2000, and like you mentioned above, my only complaint is aesthetic... I like the way winamp is on my eyes much more than the way foobar2000 is, but heck, if you say it's better, then I believe it is, so I'm going to give it a shot.

Also, I meant to ask earlier... can you give a link to show me how to do a verified rip? I thought I saw it around sometime, but I can't find it now. I set EAC up all proper, and I want to make sure.

[RainDawg]

Sure thing JD....

This is the FAQ entry:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ipping#faq_eac

which just gives a little blurb about verified extraction, but mostly leads you to the coaster factory:
http://users.pandora.be/satcp/eac07.htm

The coaster factory contains a plethora of information, and I recommend reading through the other parts of that site while you have time.

Once again, if you need anything, just ask.

[Greengoat]

Two things, one, yeah it could have been a problem with earlier versions of the app. Ant two, now I need to go and find one that isn't sector aligned. But I have the feeling over the 1 1/2 years that I ran across at least one of those.

[RainDawg]

Originally Posted by Greengoat

But I have the feeling over the 1 1/2 years that I ran across at least one of those.

Uh-huh...I'd say more than one. Let me know how it goes, I am very intested to hear how this software test works out as I've shunned it long ago, but never did a proper test on it myself to confirm my suspicions . Thanks Goat.

[Greengoat]

Leaving town tonight for the weekend. Never got around to finishing the test. I looked through a couple shows but saw nothing wrong. 2 down, hundreds more to go.

Is there an easier way to see if the sectors boundries are offset? I know take a look at my out of date list and let me know if there are any that you know had problems with in the past. http://db.etree.org/greengoat

Thanks, I really like using db, the right click option is just so handy. But I want to make sure it's doing what it's supposed to do and not damaging the files.

[RainDawg]

OK...I just ran downloaded dbPowerAmp and ran it through a battery of tests. I made up a sample batch of .wav files, some with SBEs and some without. I then compressed to SHN and FLAC, and both outputted identical shntool md5s as the original WAV. I then compressed the SHNs directly to FLAC in batch, and back. Again, identical.

I honestly can't figure out where I got those errors I experienced before, but I am content right to say that dbPowerAmp appears up to the job.

I still recommend not deleting the input files until you run a BitVerify with foobar2000 or shntool -comp check to ensure that the result files are acoustically identical to the input files. ALWAYS double check your work. I cant stress this point enough..

I would continue to use dbPowerAmp if you like it, and if you run a comparison of the audio fingerprint on both files and it results the same, you know your files are the same and can move on an delete the originals.

I know I experienced some flaky behavior with this a while back, but I honestly can't repeat it and will say for now that I think this is sound software. If you ever do experience a changed fingerprint as the result of dbPowerAmp, please let me know and we'll try to pinpoint exactly how and why is messed up. If not, I'll assume I screwed up somehow back then and leave it at that...

[RainDawg]

PS I just did a meansurement of the dbPowerAmp FLAC conversion, and it takes about twice as long to convert a set from WAV > FLAC using "high" as it does to convert using the command-line codec on "8". Whatever db uses as it's graphical frontend must be inserting some very inefficient overhead into the process. This isn't really a problem, just a bit of an annoyance....as long as the files are the same, it doesn't matter to me how long it takes to convert.

SHN > FLAC direct conersion takes a LOT longer than the same thing with foobar2000. I still like the easy right-click features db has, so will probably use it anyway,

[TheMamba]

Originally Posted by JayDub

Is there any way to change the compression level (from 5) when converting from .wav to .flac?

Poked around a bit and figured it out I think....

With foobar open, click on the Foobar2000 drop down and select Preferences.

Select Diskwriter under the components heading.

On the right-hand side there is a slot called Output presets. In that area, click on the Add New button. Select FLAC from the dropdown. Hit OK and then change the compression level to whatever you want. The only thing I'm unsure of is the Add Padding value, so I left it at the default #.

Now you've created a new preset.

[RainDawg]

Originally Posted by TheMamba

The only thing I'm unsure of is the Add Padding value, so I left it at the default #.

The padding is a certain amount of space left at the beginning of the file, before the audio portion, for adding tags (aka Vorbis comments). You can force this to be something other than the defauly 4096, but it's not recommended. What creating this default space does is allow people to add and edit tags without having to rewrite the entire file....

Unles you're putting a sick amount of information (pages of text for a single track) the 4096 should be plenty. Of couse, it's awfully rude to decrease this value as people who download your seeds WILL want the freedom to add whatever tags they choose.

So, yeah, leave it at the default.

[tall_leaping]

thanks for this discussion guys, it has been informative. i am just getting used to foobar (altho i dont like the ColumnsUI, i like the tabbed playlists- maybe i need to play with it more), and now maybe i'll check out dbPA, since foobar is NOT that userfriendly...but i do like the SHN>FLAC direct option...

ah..decisions, decisions...

[JayDub]

foobar2000 tends to crash my machine. :shrug:

[Greengoat]

Thanks for checking into db Dawg. I did notice right away how fast flac frontend is on converting, and pretty much everything else. I really like flac frontend, made some ffp for some of the flac shows I have, just for my own reference. But is it okay to make ffp of older shows and include this fingerprint with the show? Just curious, since there is a slight possibility, as remote as it may be, that my flac files do not match the original. Or is flac so new that making a ffp now, is better than not making one at all, assuming the ffp just wasn't included in a burn sometime down the road from the original.

And to this discussion. GG still learning, and reading the other techno stuff as we go.

[RainDawg]

Originally Posted by JayDub

foobar2000 tends to crash my machine.

wow...never heard of that happening before. What are you doing that makes it crash? Usually, it's far more stable than most other packages.