TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

[sabkisscrue]

Originally Posted by dcbullet

My attitude is not passive aggressive. I actively believe that our policy is correct. This has nothing to do with me "not feeling like it." FM99 came in here with a piss poor attitude and I let him know our reasons.

You act like I don't understand the issue. My recordings get put up on blog sites as mp3's. I don't like that. I get it.

I disagree about the "piss poor attitude", one could make an argument that anybody sounds pissed off when they post on a message board. This is obviously something that would piss off any taper or filmer though, if he wishes to have his recording taken down his wishes should supercede that of the person who uploaded it or any policy. Now about that policy, its obviously not written by someone who has a clue what hes talking about, no offense.
What im going by is how its been done for years before torrenting even came about.
I cant say this enough, the reason why a filmer/tapers wishes should be respected is because these are the people who provide the material for this site, any Mod should want to honor a filmers/tapers wishes and hope that he uploads his material at this site. This type of policy if anything will alienate filmers/tapers from uploading to this site. Now that might not be something you take serious but you have to consider that one taper/filmer has at least 10 things he could upload to this site, now you might not want anything he could potentially upload but there is a lot of people who do.

[U2Lynne]

I don't know if any of you remember STG. We tried the policy of pulling shows recorded by a taper if the taper requested it. What happened as a result of that policy was a mess. Shows uploaded, then asked to be removed, uploaded again under a new name, then removed, etc. Then there was the super big 30GB (I think it was) torrent that was uploaded and the taper waited deliberately until people got to 80% and then pulled it. He did that several times just to get back at people and to make a point with STG that the policy was actually a bad policy. (This was almost six years ago, so it's all kinda fuzzy with me.) It's hard to come up with a policy that is fair and that doesn't get misused.

[sabkisscrue]

Originally Posted by rspencer

I sent a couple shows as CDR to a Yahoo group for a certain artist. They were available as torrents, but nobody there could seem to grasp the BT thing. So no biggie, I gave them a couple copies to make copies from & get it to all the members. All I asked was that they not start passing it around as mp3.

2 weeks later, one of the members posts a rapidshare link to the mp3s he had made. I politely pointed out that I had publicly asked that they not do that. I didn't ask that they be taken down, didn't ask that they not d/l them, etc. Done is done.

But I did suggest that they start learning bittorrrent, because I wasn't sending the other show that I'd recorded.

No point racing to close the door once the horse is out. Maybe FM99 traded it to someone, who traded again, etc....it'll get out. Would it be nice if everyone complied with his request? Of course. But you can't get common courtesy with a large percentage of the people you see face-to-face each day, so I wouldn't expect it with people on the internet.

You said that you dont think I dont understand the issue.
I dont think you do.
Downloading a cdr isnt comaprable to someone busting their ass to video tape a show.

[trustthex]

Originally Posted by Alex231

This 'ribs' thing is funny to maybe one person


Holy fucking shit.

I like ribs.


Also, as a taper, I agree w/ the stated policy. Once it's out there, it's out there. Giving it to one person might as well be considered putting it in circulation. The idea of hoarding at this day and age is tired, no single piece of media is forever...

[rspencer]

I didn't download it, I recorded it. Then burned them freebies, because they couldn't/wouldn't learn how to d/l the torrents I'd already posted..

The point is once you release it, it's out of your hands. If FM99 wants to keep future releases off the 'net, the only surefire way is to not circulate them. There is really no other 100% reliable option. Once traded, it can get traded on & on and eventually end up online.

As the taper, we have no rights to limit uploads. That's just how it is. Sit on it or accept that it's gonna spread.

[rspencer]

It would be the best circulating, or best existing, copy. But it still is not a master. 1st or 2nd gen is just that.

If all first editions of Dickens' books disappeared, it's not going to make paperback editions worth any more. If a Van Gogh painting is destroyed, prints are still prints.

There is one master, and then there are copies.

[sabkisscrue]

Originally Posted by rspencer

I didn't download it, I recorded it. Then burned them freebies, because they couldn't/wouldn't learn how to d/l the torrents I'd already posted..

The point is once you release it, it's out of your hands. If FM99 wants to keep future releases off the 'net, the only surefire way is to not circulate them. There is really no other 100% reliable option. Once traded, it can get traded on & on and eventually end up online.

As the taper, we have no rights to limit uploads. That's just how it is. Sit on it or accept that it's gonna spread.

That type of attitude is unjustified if you really do tape shows.
If you are a taper, you'd be in agreement with me that this policy is
not good. The attitude that once its out there, its no longer yours is absurd, if not insane. It is HIS recording, regardless of what band it is, who uploaded it, or who he gave it to. Actually its irrelevant.
You cannot disrespect a filmers and tapers wishes.
They must supercede any policy or even your own opinion (which I think I commented about already).
Im not saying anything new, thats just how it is.

[sabkisscrue]

Again, you could consider something your master whether it technically is a master or isnt.

[rspencer]

Other than the extreme failure that Lynne mentioned, I've yet to see any site that gave tapers the right to have removed uploads of their recordings. Some have stricter policies than we do.

The "once it's out there.." isn't an attitude, it's a fact. If you don't want it to circulate, don't circulate it. Once it's circulated, it is no longer "his." He may have taped it, but he released it into what is more-or-less a grey area public domain, no matter what may be requested/demanded in a menu or text file. We have no IP rights; those are the band's.

To think it can be traded & never go online is naive. "Hoard" or it or just let it go.

[rspencer]

You could also consider a bologna sandwich to be an airplane, but you would be wrong.

The master is the only copy that should be referred to as such, IMO. Collectors of some bands like to claim whatever copy they've unearthed is a master, for whatever reason (bragging rights, better $ from boot companies, etc.). Such mislabeling just causes problems. Enough of that kinda stuff & who knows what is what (there are enough problems verifying generations as-is).

[mooncusser]

it's always nice manners to ask a taper if he minds a show being spread around.
who knows, they might plan on uploading somewhere themselves to help their ratio.
but there's no rule that you have to ask - or abide by the answer, for that matter.

once it's out there, it's out there.
get over it, you don't own the rights.

if it's popular it will wind up in MP3 format.
if it's really popular it will wind up on eBay.
and it may even get posted again as a "remaster"

[sabkisscrue]

Once again. You can refer to any tape you want as your master. But when trading/torrenting you must be accurate about the lineage, most people arent.

[sabkisscrue]

Originally Posted by rspencer

Other than the extreme failure that Lynne mentioned, I've yet to see any site that gave tapers the right to have removed uploads of their recordings. Some have stricter policies than we do.

The "once it's out there.." isn't an attitude, it's a fact. If you don't want it to circulate, don't circulate it. Once it's circulated, it is no longer "his." He may have taped it, but he released it into what is more-or-less a grey area public domain, no matter what may be requested/demanded in a menu or text file. We have no IP rights; those are the band's.

To think it can be traded & never go online is naive. "Hoard" or it or just let it go.

You are telling me you taped a show and this is your attitude? Its irrelevant what a taper does with his recording, no matter what he does with it, its still HIS recording. He has a right to say whether or not he wants his recording traded or torrented. If you were to get HIS recording from someone or by torrent, does that mean you have the right to say whether the show could be traded or torrented? No. The filmer is the one who makes the rules/policy.

Originally Posted by sabkisscrue

But I happen to think and maybe its completely crazy (
you tell me), that a Mod should be above that.
If there is any reason that a torrent should be taken
down, a Mod should be willing to do it or look into it
especially if the person responsible for the dvd wants it taken down.
For any Mod to have the passive aggressive attitude
"we dont care", thats not Mod behavior. A mod should be above it all,
and fair and above all, respectful. That is a Mod.
Not someone who doesnt care. Dont call yourself a Mod
if your attitude is I dont care. If thats your attitude, step
down. You wanna be a Mod, than handle it and do something.
Above all, you must be respectful and never give off the
impression you arent willing to do something just because
you dont feel like it. Understand that there wouldnt be a dvd
to upload if this person didnt put the work into it, so show
some respect to him and take it down.

Applause to that!
I think you can tell an arsehole from it's smell. Cheers!

[Thulani]

Originally Posted by sabkisscrue

The filmer is the one who makes the rules/policy.

Yeah, like requesting money for the recording?