Should we ban thoughtless leechers?

[rspencer]

Originally Posted by dementrium

For those people voting for the first option, I have some news for you.

you're taking a bold and lonely position on that poll...you got balls bro (good for you) I personally think it's a bit harsh, but I'm glad to know you don't give a damn what people think...that's the sign of a good person...hope we can actually make some changes round here...even if it's a small step, I'd like to see asses like that get kicked out

You were one of them.

And so was vlad

[vladsmythe]

"You were one of them.

And so was vlad"


I was. I'll cop to it. I was thinking that we could get rid of a lot of excellent members with a 1.0 ratio enforcement. That would go over well... and all that would remain is a few good folks who contribute content and a ton of weasels who contribute nothing but have a fast connection. Bottom line: I propose a ratio "Bailout" for people like me who share original content, but are hampered by slower dsl upload speed.

[Ma98734]

I'm a big leecher, but nowhere near thoughtless, I'm aware I don't seed but it's due to internet speed, firewalling (which I can't remove) and many more reasons. However I'm glad that people put up their shows here and let me download even if I don't share. You're a great community and people like me that can only download are glad that a lot of people here allow us to stay.

Thanks to all!!, and let the Karma be a driving force.

[chinajoe]

i try to seed what i down for a little while. but my connection isnt the fastest.
therefore i up some masters from time to time, putting new stuff in the pool as others have done for me.

[ibb420]

This is just my second post even though I have been a member since '05. Since the mod have stated that no one will be banned for a low ratio solely, why has the question been changed to: under what conditions does a person's low ratio come into consideration for banning. This is the plan that I have come up with that I think covers most the bases.

First off the new member deficit/stale torrent dls:
Give all new members a trial period of 40 GB to catch up and learn how to torrent properly. This is the equivalent of 10 dvd or 40 audio shows. During this period have automatically generated emails/pm's with tips such as firewall/ port forwarding and other help links. At the end of this period zero both up and download stats. They are now full members. This gives them nothing new but the responsibility of sharing.

The second issue that I see is the vine/b&p:
This is easily fixed with a bot or a volunteer. Once a vine is closed give credit to all but the last person in the vine equal to the MB of the show. There is a time lag from the dl to the close of the vine triggering a tally and credit received. Such Is the nature of non digital trading. This is work unless a bot can be easily programed at a decent price, but is very doable.

This is just a thought process by no means a complete system and I know that other bugs and problems will arise. Under these conditions I see no reason that a person not wanting to be solely a leach would have a problem keeping above a .25 ratio. If they slip below this an email/pm before banning would be considerate.

My .02
Eric

[marksg]

Originally Posted by vladsmythe

"You were one of them. And so was vlad"

I was. I'll cop to it. I was thinking that we could get rid of a lot of excellent members with a 1.0 ratio enforcement. That would go over well... and all that would remain is a few good folks who contribute content and a ton of weasels who contribute nothing but have a fast connection. Bottom line: I propose a ratio "Bailout" for people like me who share original content, but are hampered by slower dsl upload speed.

I 2nd your thoughts. I'm not proud of my ratio, but I am not thoughtless. I never jump off a torrent that is desperate for seeders, I may stay connected for days, a week even and barely hit .40. This is why I regift stuff I get elsewhere in an attempt to do my share. So while it may look like I'm "jumping off" a torrent prematurely, it's likely due to the fact that I need the kb's for the show I'm seeding. I do intend to upgrade my DSL service since it has recently become possible to do so, but at the quantity of my usage, my ratio isn't going to move too easily. I agree with vlad, that a professional leecher with a high speed connection allowing a good ratio isn't a better member than I am, his contribution comes in a different way. This site has been "home" to me for a long time, and setting some high ratio requirement is not going to improve this site. If a ratio requirement has to be implemented I think Vlad's "bailout" should extend to all forms of uploading. Sharing new content has to be worth more than simply having a fast upload speed. Perhaps a .25 enforcement ratio with a credit system for uploaders of new material, such as 10gigs of upload credit per each gig of new material uploaded EX: upload a 4gig dvd and receive 40 gigs of upload credit. This would not only encourage somewhat fair sharing , but some more members to share new and unique things to TTD. Now THAT would improve the site, getting more uploaders and more content

[marksg]

I had a 2nd thought on this topic as well. Hungercity has a "karma" system they use, I thought I would copy and post my Karma page from there to give you an idea of how that works:
Welcome back, marksg [logout]
Ratio: 0.527 Uploaded: 55.23 GB Downloaded: 104.85 GB Active Torrents: d/l -0 u/l -1 The time is now: 21:54
1 (0 New) 0

CONGRATULATIONS TO [ mtownshend ] & [ theembryo ] FOR BEING PROMOTED TO THEIR RESPECTIVE POSITIONSSeeder Bonus Exchange
Here you can exchange your karma points (you have 1624 karma points at the moment).

Option Details? Costs Exchange
1 +1.0GB upload credit =100 Pts

2 +2.5GB upload credit=200 Pts

3 +6GB upload credit+400 Pts

4 +1 invite= 1000Pts

How do I get these karma points?
1 bonus point per hour (if you seeding above 10KB/s)
[so right now I could exchange 1600 of my 1624 karma points for 24 Gigs credit. That would take me from a .53 ratio to almost .80] Oh BTW, the show I'm upping there will be one of my next shares here

[vladsmythe]

Very intelligent comment in a very dumb thread marksg. New content carries no weight here. I, as well as others have brought it up before, only to have that notion shot down. One would like to think that fresh content was an important factor in the quality of this site. Look at all the tired torrents in the video section that are inflating members ratios. People just bump old shit to the top, or grab it at dime and recycle it...I would seed much more here if it resulted in some sort of upload credit, as I am capped at 50 kb/s up.

[U2Lynne]

Originally Posted by vladsmythe

Very intelligent comment in a very dumb thread marksg. New content carries no weight here.

I don't know why you would say that, vlad. New content simply doesn't gain you any sort of ratio credit. We happen to keep it all separate here - your ratio reflects your bittorrent activity and the TTD Trader 'badge' reflects whether you upload torrents/vines/b&ps. Anyone can click on your profile and then your list of shows and see the 84 shows you have seeded. I think it's kinda 'false' to roll any credit you 'buy' into your actual ratio. If we did decide to give some sort of ratio credit for these things, it would be stated in the ratio that xxx amount of it was earned some other way than through torrenting - just like they do it over at STMusic. So instead of your ratio showing as:
Downloaded: 1.54 TB Uploaded: 394.93 GB Ratio: 0.25
It would say something like:
Downloaded: 1.54 TB Uploaded: 394.93 GB Gifted: 100 GB Ratio: 0.32

So, it would be clearly stated that you were 'given' the ratio credit and it wasn't earned through torrenting. I don't know that that would make any sort of difference to people now as having the TTD Trader badge does.

I firmly believe that the actually torrenting stats should stay separate from any sort of 'credit' you get because torrenting stats should be torrenting stats.

However, I'm not suggesting that I'm implementing the Gifted part of this discussion, I'm simply spelling out how it would show if we were to do so.

As for it being a dumb thread, I won't post my feelings on that. However, just because you don't like the thread, do you think I should just delete it?

[vladsmythe]

I think mean, or mean spirited , negative, is dumb. I am constantly attacked by people here (many who seed zilch) for my ratio. It seems to be important to a lot of folks who contribute nothing to demean the very people who enrich the content well here at TTD.

[possessed]

Originally Posted by vladsmythe

as I am capped at 50 kb/s up.

I'm capped at less than that and yet my ratio is fine. Go ahead and explain this one. We're dying to read your rationalization.

[skip]

Look at all these inveterate leechers trying to rationalize their stealing from the community

vlad doesn't count though, he contributes lulz.


Just a couple thoughts for the bad ratio types -- how many torrents have you killed by not seeding? How do you justify that? Have you ever downloaded a show that had just 1 or 2 seeders? Be glad those people don't act like you.

[vladsmythe]

Originally Posted by possessed

I'm capped at less than that and yet my ratio is fine. Go ahead and explain this one. We're dying to read your rationalization.

I have no desire to reach some arbitrary ratio that suits people that I care nothing about. Like you and the people you refer to as "We". If you and others are "dying to read my rationalization" you need to get a life. People are starving, human rights are being violated, the industrialized world economy is spinning out of control..."mild interest" in my rationalization would be sufficient. My rationalization: .25 seems okay for me, considering the amount of original content I contribute. If all I did was dwell on my ratio here, I'm sure I could raise it to a level that would meet your approval.

[possessed]

First you say you are capped, now you talk about starving people? Then how can you upload when such atrocities are occurring?

Uploading new content requires you to tape a show, edit it, make the necessary fingerprints, folders, text and torrent files and then bring it all here. But downloading and maintaining your ratio requires you download a file, drop it in a client and wait. Pretty fucking simple.

And you try to rationalize your thievery of others hard work on starving people. You are a shameful person Vlad.

Just because you share a few toys with us doesn't mean you can run around and take everything out of all the other toyboxes.

[trustthex]

mmmm... hi fellow lounge members!

re: the comment about cash on hungercity... does that mean ratio is kept where enforced, but not where not... weak imho.