It might be time to revisit Hot Tuna NAB status

As of just a few hours ago, Planet Rock removed Hot Tuna and Jorma Kaukonen shows from their NAB list. They say this change in policy is due to that neither the Hot Tuna or Jorma Kaukonen official websites publicly post an anti-electronic sharing policy anymore. I've been expecting this to happen since they abandoned their own "Tunatunes" electronic distribution and just send everything over to iTunes now.

It may be time to take a fresh look at their NAB status at TTD, although I would fully understand any decision not to change policy.

[direwolf-pgh]

from Jorma's wife many moons ago (I guess Everyday Jones tried this idea)

Subject: Hot Tuna Taping Policy
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 07:22:52 -0500
From: Vanessa Kaukonen <[email protected]>


Hot Tuna Taping Policy

Hot Tuna/Jorma Kaukonen/Jorma Trio/Blue Country/Jorma & Michael/Jorma &
Barry/(etc.) have NEVER given permission to the taping/trading community to post live show recordings as files for electronic download'. Traditional copying of cassettes, DATs, CDRs (wav, shn, mp3), and mailing among fans are OK, as most of the people sending and receiving are known, and the distribution is somewhat limited due to the manual process. However, posting a show on a FTP site, music file sharing server, or on bit-torrent schemes, allows mass distribution to unknown and uncontrolled numbers of recipients. The band's management is NOT OK with this type of distribution unless specific authorization has been requested and given. For example:

- a radio station posts an in-studio interview and performance on their
- website for download - it is only done with approval from the band's management.

The band IS 'Taper Friendly' > AUD taping is always OK and encouraged (except in cases where the venue or contract absolutely prohibits). SBD patches are not given - the SBD recording belongs to the band.

The band IS 'Trade Friendly' > Traditional copying, trading, mailing OK.
Posting the files on servers for any means of electronic download is NOT OK.

If those simple rules cannot be followed, the band may choose to become 'Non-Taper Friendly' and 'Non-Trade Friendly'.


A little fat for Jason Green to chew on.....

I copied and pasted off the Philzone

http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/mo...read&tid=22563

[paddington]

since we can freely post opinions on the internet, I will say that I don't think most of these over-restrictive types are a big enough deal to be so picky and restrictive about how audience recordings are distributed by people who appreciate their music, Jorma K included.
You'd think the guy would be old enough by now to not care whether 18 people get copies of an audio cassette or 1800 got copies of something digital they can actually listen to.
Soon, there will be no physical media. How will these anti-digital swapping guys feel then?

Assuming monetary income from audience recordings has very little potential, I'd think these guys would be happy for their music to be spread far and wide.


Of course, we will respect their wishes, always, since what we think doesn't really matter to them and doesn't have to.
That policy is recently posted / reiterated, so I believe it needs to stand.

[retired]

Originally Posted by jameskg

That policy is recently posted / reiterated.

You think nearly 10 years ago is recent?


http://jormakaukonen.com/tour.php
•Jorma Kaukonen does not allow audio / video recording of any of his shows by the audience or the front of house engineer. Front of house engineers are not permitted to record the show unless authorized by Jorma Kaukonen management. If authorized, then recording in whatever format is property of Jorma Kaukonen and no copy will be made or retained by front of house engineer, the venue, the promoter or anybody else affiliated with the Jorma Kaukonen engagement.
•Jorma Kaukonen archives and records his own performance for his own usage with no fee to the venue or promoter.
•Jorma Kaukonen does not allow flash photography at the shows. Professional cameras are not allowed in the venue unless the persons has valid press credentials or are ok’d prior to the performance by Jorma Kaukonen’s Management at least 48 hours prior to the show. Only the first three songs may be photographed.
•Promoter / venue will stop audio / video taping, flash photographers as well as people walking up to the front of the stage and take photos with their phone. <<<what a fucking asshole

[aikowolf]

[direwolf-pgh]

personally, I believe the 'no electronic trade/snail mail only' is unrealistic for any artist at this point in time. either allow the fans to partake or don't.

[paddington]

I was talking about this, from a few days ago, which is pretty much unchanged:

http://jormakaukonen.com/tour.php

[paddington]

Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh

personally, I believe the 'no electronic trade/snail mail only' is unrealistic for any artist at this point in time. either allow the fans to partake or don't.

yes

just like Jorma doesn't actually get checks, we don't actually listen to tapes or CDs.

Originally Posted by jameskg

I was talking about this, from a few days ago, which is pretty much unchanged:

http://jormakaukonen.com/tour.php

There is nothing on the page you, linked to that seems pertinent to this discussion about Hot Tuna / Jorma's NAB status. It does spell out his anti-taping stance, and would seem to contradict the "taper friendly" portion of the message from Vanessa Kaukonen posted by direwolf-pgh in the second post of this thread. Perhaps you can illuminate me to what exactly was, in your words, recently reiterated about the anti-electronic sharing policy?

And how does this vary from the trading here of Todd Rundgren or Peter Rowan? They both had anti-electronic trading statements on their respective websites at one time, and both have stopped posting those policies, but neither have publicly stated a change in policy. If no longer posting an anti-electronic trading policy, without publicly announcing a change to that policy is reason enough to remove Rundgren and Rowan from the NAB list, why not Tuna?

All that being said, I realize "the decision of the judges is final". Thanks for hearing me out.

Late thought: The message you linked to and he copied and pasted, has not changed in at least 2 years, it's just part of the "boilerplate" or "template" of the page they list upcoming tour dates, the tour dates were updated August 15th, but Jorma's screed remains unchanged.

[direwolf-pgh]

it would be interesting to create a Hot Tuna Social Group and have everyone list out their recordings/want list

we've done this a few times before with excellent results. Social Groups can be found here
the content (posts and links) of these groups can be public or private ya dig

[paddington]

Originally Posted by arfarf

There is nothing on the page you linked to that seems pertinent to this discussion about Hot Tuna / Jorma's NAB status. It does spell out his anti-taping stance, and would seem to contradict the "taper friendly" portion of the message from Vanessa Kaukonen posted by direwolf-pgh in the second post of this thread. Perhaps you can illuminate me to what exactly was, in your words, recently reiterated about the anti-electronic sharing policy?

And how does this vary from the trading here of Todd Rundgren or Peter Rowan? They both had anti-electronic trading statements on their respective websites at one time, and both have stopped posting those policies, but neither have publicly stated a change in policy. If no longer posting an anti-electronic trading policy, without publicly announcing a change to that policy is reason enough to remove Rundgren and Rowan from the NAB list, why not Tuna?

All that being said, I realize "the decision of the judges is final". Thanks for hearing me out.

Late thought: The message you linked to and he copied and pasted, has not changed in at least 2 years, it's just part of the "boilerplate" or "template" of the page they list upcoming tour dates, the tour dates were updated August 15th, but Jorma's screed remains unchanged.

yes, unchanged

[aikowolf]

Originally Posted by jameskg

I was talking about this, from a few days ago, which is pretty much unchanged:

http://jormakaukonen.com/tour.php

I was talking more about the whole absurdity of trying to keep folks from trading these any way they want the cat is out of the bag - these guys should worry more about the private trackes like What. and others that are actually pirating

[daddyray]

Yes, I get why you posted the link, and you make a good point about Jorma being out of touch.

I was trying to understand how James thought that link supported his position even though it made no mention of an electronic trading policy.

I just thought I'd be remiss if I didn't point out you had posted the same link.

@direwolf-pgh: That Hot Tuna social group concept you brought up sounds like a good idea, thanks for the suggestion.

[aikowolf]

I'd love to be a part of said group - 60+GB of Tuna and Jorma I have