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Chachi420
2007-05-03, 06:22 PM
As we all know, without people uploading music via bittorrent, this site would not exist. Should we ban thoughtless leechers who never give anything back to the community, thereby raping all of the ttd bandwith and hurting the efforts of spreading the music?

bonzobonham
2007-05-03, 06:32 PM
Do postwhores steal bandwidth ?? :lol

Chachi420
2007-05-03, 06:35 PM
Do postwhores steal bandwidth ?? :lol
heh...pw's create more server load (but, yes, it's bandwith too)! :lol

Phishblowz
2007-05-03, 07:07 PM
does this mean to ban them outright, or to ban downloading but still allow uploading to improve the ratio above the requirement??? I think an outright ban would screw some innocent people who might have fallen into a hard time, or the newb that's catching up on old torrents with no other leechers to share with...if we ban downloading but allow uploads they can remain as seeders, or reseed (or upload if they have something of their own...or from elswhere)

I believe in enforcing a ratio, but not necessarily kickin em out...that may be harsh...after all, we do have to sleep at night :cool:

besides, if they can't dl, they'll either leave of their own accord, or become helpful...either way, a dl ban would prevent the rape of bandwidth, which is really the point...I don't care about spanking the dumbass who doesn't care, I'm more interested in improving the quality of the community for those of us who give a shit...I'd vote for a dl ban, but otherwise, I think too many good folks might get turned off or shut out...any opinions guys

Chachi420
2007-05-03, 07:57 PM
does this mean to ban them outright, or to ban downloading but still allow uploading to improve the ratio above the requirement??? I think an outright ban would screw some innocent people who might have fallen into a hard time, or the newb that's catching up on old torrents with no other leechers to share with...if we ban downloading but allow uploads they can remain as seeders, or reseed (or upload if they have something of their own...or from elswhere)

I believe in enforcing a ratio, but not necessarily kickin em out...that may be harsh...after all, we do have to sleep at night :cool:

besides, if they can't dl, they'll either leave of their own accord, or become helpful...either way, a dl ban would prevent the rape of bandwidth, which is really the point...I don't care about spanking the dumbass who doesn't care, I'm more interested in improving the quality of the community for those of us who give a shit...I'd vote for a dl ban, but otherwise, I think too many good folks might get turned off or shut out...any opinions guys

Yes, it would be necessary to first warn the user to give them a chance to improve their ratio.

Chachi420
2007-05-03, 08:20 PM
I'm starting to think now that the ratio is not as important as the absolute value
of the difference between dl and ul

for example, someone who's dl 20GB and only ul 10GB has a ratio of 0.5. But the difference is only 10GB...not too bad (only 1 dvd9 show)

BUT if someone has dl 500GB and only ul 250GB, then that's 250GB and that's a big deal (equivalent to ~25 DVD9 shows!)

dementrium
2007-05-03, 08:40 PM
First option. Every user with a ratio above 1.0. My guess is the site would implode doing the calculations. :wtf:

OTOH, how can be measured the mindless state of a leecher? :wave: :headbang: Even worse, who wil measure our state of mind?

Chachi420
2007-05-03, 08:51 PM
First option. Every user with a ratio above 1.0. My guess is the site would implode doing the calculations. :wtf:

OTOH, how can be measured the mindless state of a leecher? :wave: :headbang: Even worse, who wil measure our state of mind?
if it's literally "mindless", then I guess I'm outta here! I lost my mind just a couple of times.... :lol :crazy: :wacko: :cyclops:

Phishblowz
2007-05-03, 08:54 PM
do a ratio check for every 50gb or something so people have a chance to cath up...if it's every 50 or 25 or something, they will know when they will get checked, and it's on them to be in good standing at that point...but 50 or 100gb gives people plenty of time to get settled befor enforcing any requirements from the start of membership...just my opinion...if people are still allowed to upload and improve their status, than I vote for a .50 ratio...I think those with big appetites and little capabilities can make up the difference with vines and bnps and such...so that's where my vote is goin...hopefully this brings results when it's all said and done...hopefully we actually get some serious votes to get a realistic idea of the general state of mind of the average user :cool:

possessed
2007-05-05, 02:59 AM
I think Chachi should be banned for over seeding. :D

U2Lynne
2007-05-05, 12:08 PM
The big problem is..... we aren't just a torrent site, like DIME. It would be easy to think of banning or limiting uploads for people with low ratios if all we were was a torrent site. But, what about those that download and then offer a Vine for every show they get? That is 'giving away' a whole show, kinda like uploading that amount to someone. Or, what about those that offer up a ton of B&Ps? The whole reason I added a list of Vines and B&Ps to a person's profile is so people can see if they offered them and then take that into consideration along with the ratio when they are asked to open a window.

These guys who have poor ratios and then come around asking for reseeds probably have a much lower chance of a reseed than someone who has a good ratio or someone who has also started Vines or offered B&Ps. Karma comes around to get them. Notice how that dudogger guy didn't even like the fact that we *show* ratios. He knows he is getting judged by it and doesn't like it (and may be embarrassed by it). I figure karma comes around to get these guys. Maybe not now, maybe not next week, but they will ask for a show to get reseeded and will have people ignore the request because of their ratio and lack of giving in other ways.

schmoe75
2007-05-05, 12:27 PM
But, what about those that download and then offer a Vine for every show they get? That is 'giving away' a whole show, kinda like uploading that amount to someone. Or, what about those that offer up a ton of B&Ps? .
We aren't talking about those people who at least make an attempt to share in other ways. We are talking about people like him who do nothing but rape the community & its bandwidth and make no effort to share what so ever. He has offered no vines, b&p's or freebies.

U2Lynne
2007-05-05, 12:36 PM
We aren't talking about those people who at least make an attempt to share in other ways. We are talking about people like him who do nothing but rape the community & its bandwidth and make no effort to share what so ever. He has offered no vines, b&p's or freebies.
But, if we were to ban all those with low ratios, we could be banning a good Viner or good B&Per.

Also, in regards to the title.... I think we should be talking about *thoughtless* leechers, not mindless ones. The mindless ones seem to be totally unaware, but once they become aware, they try to raise their ratios. It's the thoughtless ones - the ones that are aware but come up with excuse after excuse of why they can't give back and why they are owed - that we should be talking about.

shopkin
2007-05-05, 12:39 PM
i have an idea for those of you who cant handle the low ratios(which are NOT inforced here)

why not add everyone you see with a ratio unexceptable to you, to your ignore list. in about 6months time youll have a site with no-one but people with
good(?) ratios........ :hmm:

schmoe75
2007-05-05, 12:54 PM
But, if we were to ban all those with low ratios, we could be banning a good Viner or good B&Per.
No one is saying ban them all, just people like him who do nothing. I have no problem with people who have a shitty ratio and offer up vines & b&p's.
Again, he has done NOTHING to share!
why not add everyone you see with a ratio unexceptable to you, to your ignore list. in about 6months time youll have a site with no-one but people with good(?) ratios
That will only keep you from seeing their posts...putting them on ignore does not stop them from leeching. To my knowledge azuerus is the only client that allows you to ban people to keep them from downloading from you, but it is a resource hog on your comp.

Phishblowz
2007-05-05, 01:06 PM
I'm less concerned with punishing the guilty, and I agree that it's hard to seperate the poor ratios with good intentions from the thoughtless leechers to make an actual policy, but there ought to be a way to eliminate the extreme cases like this, because it makes the experience less enjoyable to the quality people that are doing the right thing...

we still suffer from their rape of the bandwidth whether we ignore them or not, and that still affects the community and the flow of the torrents...it's one thing to take the bandwidth and then redistribute thru vines and bnps and such, but to take without giving anything of any kind should be stopped...more for the sake of the upstanding members of the community than anything else...it's offensive, and goes beyond decency...even if bans are made on a case by case basis, there are plenty of cases (like dudogger) that need to be reviewed...they offer nothing but attitude and yet are protected by the admin...what about those who actually contribute here??? please consider the effects this behavior has on us...don't act harshly towards those who do their part, but don't offer a free pass to people like dudogger...it's just a poor decision...I have great respect for U2Lynne, but I think she is being a little too soft on this issue...I appreciate her point of view, but there must be a way to seperate from those who give back (in one fasion or another) and those who take without care...if anyone can find an evenhanded way to do something like this, it would be her...here's hopin for the best...thanks to everyone who got this ball rollin...even if nothing comes of it, I appreciate the flow of ideas on this thread :thumbsup

shopkin
2007-05-05, 01:25 PM
either enforce or remove the ratio stats :thumbsup

Phishblowz
2007-05-05, 01:45 PM
can we enforce some kind of decency policy that people can agree on.??? maybe add a ratio value to a vine offer or bnp or something and credit them so that the ratio will reflect all aspects of sharing on the den rather than actual ul and dl stats...somehow these arrogant fools that have come here to take the best and fuck the rest have to be stopped for the good of the community...it's more about courtesy and decency than about an actual ratio issue...hopefully we can find an area we can all agree on to resolve the issue...I think everyone would agree that people like Dudogger shouldn't be here...the question is how to remove them without accidentally eliminating some of the good ones in the process...any suggestions guys??? :hmm:

I think ratio credits for vines and bnps is a great idea to help make sure that credit is given for all kinds of sharing (to further Lynnes idea that this isn't strictly torrents) so we can evaluate the overall sharing practice of the members within the community and feel better about enforcing a ratio because of all the ways offered to improve it...anyone else wanna pitch in any ideas ???

acov
2007-05-05, 02:02 PM
i dont see why its so hard to just leave your torrents open after you download them

im pretty new to bootleg collecting and i certainly have very few bootlegs that meet the standars of teh site, but im getting there very slowly....

i mean i'll a torrent open for a month in order to get the ratio as close to 1:1 as I can....i don't understand why its so hard...

im on some other trackers where ratios are more strictly enforced, and people should be happy that here its more lax; therefore they should be more willing to leave their torrents open or whatever and to not take advantage of how great this site is

just my opinion

Chachi420
2007-05-05, 02:12 PM
i dont see why its so hard to just leave your torrents open after you download them
Welcome to TTD, acov! :wave: Thanks for your pledge to share what you receive! I'm sure you will enjoy all of the good music this site has to offer :cool:

trustthex
2007-05-05, 02:32 PM
i tape some, and post more out of the archive of stuff i have backed up/etc, and agree the "dine & dash" leeching has gotten a little ridiculous. some of my torrents don't appeal to mass audience, but having 1-2 seeds other than myself after 24-48 hrs isn't right. maybe a timer/ratio is the answer? i don't know how one would setup or enforce the b&p or vines thing, but think it is a good idea none the less...

i voted for a warning, because there are people who are just ignorant. there are people who are just leeches too... i dunno the world wouldnt be right without bottom feeders, but a torrent site, probably. ;)

saltman
2007-05-05, 02:49 PM
I voted give them a warning. I think if you ban them they can always come back under a different name/ ip. I do like the idea of a time delay for people under a certain ratio say 0.25 - 0.5. I think that this will undoubtedly catch the viners in that net. However, I think there should be some appeal process where the viner can ask for the delay to be lifted. But all that sounds complicated for the viner, the mod, etc. I guess I would say public ridicule is probably the best compromise. :lol

trustthex
2007-05-05, 03:09 PM
ya, a timer would be difficult to script/whatever... what i meant was for people in the case of a low popularity torrent be required to at least leave their window open for a certain amount of time, but that isnt really feasible i now realize.

dynamic ips, etc make it too easy to resurface after banning, seeing as this site probably doesnt want to end up blocking entire domains or ranges of ips... a timer where leeches would have to wait to get onto the torrent would only make the situation worse, because a large # of seeders (or people w/ most of the torrent complete) would already be established, worsening the problem.

<shakes fist> damn you intarweb of tubes and your distribution </shakes fist>

Calmypal
2007-05-05, 10:18 PM
I don't think I get the first option. On balance, there should be more uploads than downloads? How's that supposed to work out? :hmm:

Phishblowz
2007-05-05, 11:53 PM
I don't think I get the first option. On balance, there should be more uploads than downloads? How's that supposed to work out? :hmm:

it's not about uploading and downloading torrents friend, we are talking about the amount of bandwidth you have shared on the torrents you are downloading...obviously we will have more downloaders than uploaders, or else no one would take stuff because they're too busy uploading their own stuff, but the idea we are getting at, is that once a few folks complete and the uploader leaves the torrent, it is up to those who completed the torrent to continue sharing it with the remaining leechers so that they complete the torrent as well...if all the downloaders leave once they complete, all the remaining downloaders will get stuck with no one to share the complete torrent...we are trying to compel others to do more to give back what they take...by no means is this a demand (or even a request) that everyone proactively upload their own stuff to be considered a valued member...but all of us have a download client and if you can figure out how to take a torrent then giving is a natural byproduct, but leaving it to run after completion is a personal choice...that is the issue being discussed here...hopefully this info has been helpful to you...please keep your window open to share what you take or offer a vine or bnp to give back if you would prefer...it is currently not required to do anything but take and enjoy, but common courtesy should compel you to be a decent person and share back what you take online via uploading to 1.0 or by offering bns or vines to make up the difference...currently you are allowed to take as much as you want and leave the community high and dry, but hopefully you don't need to be forced not to do that...most people should want to be better than that...it's a shame that some are not, but that's why we have this thread......to deal with that kind of person...hopefully you make better choices than that...welcome new guy :wave:

Festafarian
2007-05-07, 01:17 AM
i like the idea of credit for vines and B&Ps. For personal reasons, I'd have a killer ratio!

Although Saltman's suggestion of public ridicule is way more fun :lol

In the long run, I guess I agree with Lynne. People like that don't really hang around that long. They get a bunch of stuff, realize that nobody likes them and move on to some other hobby/site. We have so many good sharers, do we really have to get upset about the few who abuse the system?

direwolf-pgh
2007-05-07, 09:10 AM
i like the idea of credit for vines and B&Ps. For personal reasons, I'd have a killer ratio!

Although Saltman's suggestion of public ridicule is way more fun :lol

In the long run, I guess I agree with Lynne. People like that don't really hang around that long. They get a bunch of stuff, realize that nobody likes them and move on to some other hobby/site. We have so many good sharers, do we really have to get upset about the few who abuse the system?
:thumbsup no need to become upset - it would subtract from the enjoyment.
if you took the mindset of forced ratios - it would be an endless battle you cant win & ya'll meet enough 'unique' individuals as it is.

mbself
2007-05-07, 12:46 PM
Hi, I'm Matt and I am a recovering thoughtless leach.

I am finally at 1.00.

I am glad I wasn't banned back when I had a .5 or.6 or whatever it started out as. I honestly didn't get the whole uploading until your ratio is at least a 1.00 untlil I had been downloading for quite a while. Plus, sometimes my wife turns off the computer when I am not around to keep the kids from screwing with it.

Now that I understand, I let a torrent stay until at least 1 and usually until the torrent seems to have played out. When I am not downloading new stuff I try to find at least a couple of shows that need help that I can rejoin. This is what has brought me back up to 1.00. The sense of guilt that came with realizing that I was a thoughtless leach has gone away. Now, maybe I can come up with some new stuff to seed over the course of this summer.

Phishblowz
2007-05-07, 03:58 PM
It's not so much about the ratio, but more the type of person you are...in your case, you didn't know better, but if you had you would have done better...you made no excuses for yourself and began to rectify the problem as soon as you knew how...I'm glad you got things straightened out and I hope you enjoy your time here at the den...those who are void of guilt or responsibility for their actions are bringing the whole experience down a level...having to tolerate sharing with people like that is disturbing, and the fact that the admin defends them as if there is a valid excuse for such disregard is even more alarming...people shouldn't be bullied into being good people, but we shouldn't be forced to tolerate the useless members here either...if you don't respect the site.....leave :wave:

I guess I let it bother me more than I should, and that's my fault, but I stand by the fact that sharing with disrespectful people leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth...there are other ways to share with the kind-hearted folks out there that I don't need to put up with this shit...but that's my cross to bear...and I probably should have kept it to myself...but when I keep my collection like my opinions (to myself), don't ask me why...ask people like Dudogger...the answer is blowin in the wind :disbelief

xequence
2007-05-07, 04:11 PM
When you have a system and set requirements then it gets the bad people aswell as the good people.

I think the staff should take it case by case. If they find someone who has downloaded maybe 20GB or more and has a horrible ratio then the staff member should PM them and tell them they have a few weeks to get their ratio up, and if they don't, then ban them from downloading. Ofcourse, take into account things like vines and B&Ps, and if the torrents they've downloaded have all been ones that have alot of seeders but no leechers then be understanding that they can't upload on those. Oh, but go harder on people who leech but don't seed on new torrents that have alot of leechers.

Or you could simply put the word "LEECHER" in big red, bold, and underlined letters beside they're name for extreme cases. And put a list of uber-leechers on the front page on marquee (scrolling).

All in all, uber-leechers are bad, but an undescriminate "ban all people with lower then _ ratio" thing is bad. And be understanding to people trying hard to get a good ratio.

captain beyond
2007-05-08, 12:58 AM
I'm still seeding almost everything I've downloaded here and I bought a 400GB HD just for this purpose. I'm a newb but I'm learning fast and I'm about to try uploading something for the first time since I finally got in over at Dime, to share some stuff not available here. Plus I'm trying to resolve some other issues (router, port forwarding etc.) to see if I can up my upload speed (about 35 kbs at this point). It seems to me if you do what you're suggesting you're gonna lose some potentially good sharers. I began a couple months ago with zero shows in my collection. Sometimes it takes a while to get started. By the way my ratio was almost .80 a week ago until I felt compelled to DL four or five DVD's. Still seeding. There's too much good stuff here to resist!

Chachi420
2007-05-08, 03:23 AM
I'm still seeding almost everything I've downloaded here and I bought a 400GB HD just for this purpose. I'm a newb but I'm learning fast and I'm about to try uploading something for the first time since I finally got in over at Dime, to share some stuff not available here. Plus I'm trying to resolve some other issues (router, port forwarding etc.) to see if I can up my upload speed (about 35 kbs at this point). It seems to me if you do what you're suggesting you're gonna lose some potentially good sharers. I began a couple months ago with zero shows in my collection. Sometimes it takes a while to get started. By the way my ratio was almost .80 a week ago until I felt compelled to DL four or five DVD's. Still seeding. There's too much good stuff here to resist!
"Too much good stuff to resist" is the main problem with our situation at hand. There is simply no way to dl everything and maintain a 1.00 ratio. PM some people or post in the snail-mail forum and look for someone to do trades with. :thumbsup

Your 35 kbps ul seems about normal to me. That's what mine is. I find that if I dl/ul simultaneously, the ul is slower. So I prefer to dl, and then ul separately. (Actually, I do very little dl since I mostly do snail-mail trades with a tight group of trustworthy traders :cool: )

xequence
2007-05-08, 05:00 PM
That's what mine is.

Wow, I had always thought most people with amazing ammounts of GB uploaded used webseeding.

I find that if I dl/ul simultaneously, the ul is slower.

To me that always seemed to be with cable and not DSL.

Chachi420
2007-05-08, 05:40 PM
Wow, I had always thought most people with amazing ammounts of GB uploaded used webseeding.

Nope....just constant ul for over 2 years at moderate home dsl/cable rates...

Spread the love!

Jah live!

Peace to the fellow traderz!

Phishblowz
2007-05-08, 07:40 PM
I too use a cable modem and just dedicate myself to sharing...it's about the choices we make, not the money and resource we have...I could upload at 1mb/sec and it wouldn't mean shit if I didn't open a friggin window to use it...these people who whine about what their "capable" of are runnin on the same power as me (for the most part) and are barkin up the wrong tree...it may not be the case in the sack, but around here, it's not the size that counts...it's how you use it

I find now that I'm restriced to about 50k (still fighting with Time Warner) I don't like to upload as much, because it takes longer to get people over the top and the burden is on me the whole time...with dvds being 4gb give or take (not to mention multi-discs) it takes a lot of time, effort and resource to remain a constant seed for the duration...but I'll still open a window on the stuff I dl for sure...but I just wanted to dispel the myth and say that it's simply untrue that most of the major contributors have big upload speed...they simply have good snail mail trading friends and spend all their time uploading...it's not about the speed, it's about dedication...these people here made my collection what it is today, and I feel I owe it to them to share it with everyone else the way they did with me...if they didn't share it with me, I wouldn't have it in the first place...giving it back is the only way I feel satisfied at the end of the day...it's the right thing to do...that's how the circle remains unbroken...

the members of this community need to carry the torch, and not just bum a light :lol

freezer
2007-05-08, 07:57 PM
ALL you guys did notice that the name of this site is "The TRADER'S Den" not "The TORRENT Den"?


Just asking......

:wave:

____________________________________
You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!

trustthex
2007-05-08, 09:39 PM
ALL you guys did notice that the name of this site is "The TRADER'S Den" not "The TORRENT Den"?

Well, mine says sharingthegroove.org at the top... am i in the wrong place?

freezer
2007-05-08, 10:30 PM
Well, mine says sharingthegroove.org at the top... am i in the wrong place?

Possibly....especially if that moe moe moe in your avatar refers to the Andrea True disco hit......


_______________________
You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!

trustthex
2007-05-08, 10:57 PM
Possibly....especially if that moe moe moe in your avatar refers to the Andrea True disco hit......

Nope, i'm not near enough cool for that. just moe. the band.

www.moe.org

just another one of those hippy jambands :D :wtf: :cool:

possessed
2007-05-09, 09:27 PM
What's a good argument without freezer?

freezer
2007-05-09, 11:57 PM
What's a good argument without freezer?
You need lessons you came to the right place.....you keep hanging in the Lounge, you'll wind up an even bigger pussy......


This is a music site, not a word association forum, sport.


Hey, just look what the site owner learned from me.......

You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fucker! You don't know shit!


ask her if she doesn't yell it out the window at other drivers now....... ;)


(Well, she'd like to.......)

Phishblowz
2007-05-10, 12:26 AM
Hey, just look what the site owner learned from me.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fucker! You don't know shit!





I always wondered where the inspiration for that came from...that's fuckin great!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

now if we need anger management, we can make a forum for that, but everything seems to have broken down here :disbelief we're supposed to be talkin about banning people (or not banning them)

I'll add again the idea that if we added (add any number of GB here) for every vine offered, or bnp or whatever they do to contribute to the site...something so that the ratio reflects ALL that they do here, and not just the bandwidth you give and take...many people with poorer ratios would have a great boost after their other efforts are recognized, putting them in better standing on the numbers...and the only people with poor ratios would be those who REALLY do nothing at all for the site (correct me if I'm wrong) :down:

even if we abandon the idea of banning people for poor ratios, we should still consider the idea of representing the full scope of peoples efforts here in the ratio...those numbers are only here to praise or shame the users...it's all about ego, if not enforcement...and for whatever reason we keep score, shouldn't we count all the points??? :hmm:

if we show the ratio just for the sake of showing it, then we should make sure it is an accurate reflection of what they do here, not just the uploading and downloading...maybe it's just me, but I think that would spare a lot of folks a lot of hassle, and also stop some good people from defending their ratios...it would cut off a lot of problems at the head if the ratios were more reflective of the big picture...but that's just one mans opinion, for whatever it's worth :cool:

U2Lynne
2007-05-10, 12:42 AM
Hey, just look what the site owner learned from me.......




ask her if she doesn't yell it out the window at other drivers now....... ;)


(Well, she'd like to.......)
You Wall-Eyed Apple Knocking Wall Fuckers..... um, I try, but I can't remember how it goes. :disbelief

So sorry.....

freezer
2007-05-10, 01:11 AM
I'll bet you remember it if I bring up the word "lineage"

;)

B*andolier
2007-05-10, 08:15 AM
Like acov, I'm new to trading but it seems to me that it is not difficult to share, its just a mindset thing. In the short time that I have been a member, there have been a fair number of leechers whose ratio is so far south of 1.0 that they clearly do not offer access to any torrent they have downloaded. They just take big time. The whole model relies on everyone doing their bit.

I would just like to thank all of you who make the music available. You know who you are!

Rock on.

rosc2112
2007-11-30, 10:09 PM
Ratios are stupid and futile. People who want to share, WILL.. People who don't want to share, WONT. Why even worry about it? It's a fallacious argument to say that if you don't enforce ratios, no one will share.

Paul56
2007-12-05, 05:06 PM
Zomb has specials every so often offering 2 GB of ratio for every dollar donated to the site. Seems to work for them.

And yes ask to upgrade at Comcast for $10 month, almost magically your uploads go twice-as fast.

paddington
2007-12-05, 05:27 PM
We will never sell data blocks. That is too much like bootlegging.

TTD doesn't not require money for music, ever, in any case whatsoever.

Use of this site is free. Donations to keep the server runnnig are appreciated, but NO ONE gets anything for their donation beyond some text reading "Thank you".

slewofboots
2007-12-05, 06:29 PM
Just ban KingMike. All he does is leech but he makes it worse by trying to sound so enlightened about popular bootlegs.

In all seriousness, keep the site the way it is. It's great!

Darkcycle
2007-12-05, 10:05 PM
I'm fairly new to the trading community, and I think more people just need to READ THE RULES in the first place. I'm sure most people would follow them.
I know how easy it is, they see so much great shit out there, and they want it all, so they start a whole lot of torrents downloading at once. But they don't realize that they should seed them too when they are done.
A link to BT/TTD etiquette perhaps would be helpful?
I'm not against a ban though, say for ratios lower than .2 or something.
By the way, what is/are b&p's?

Regards,
D.

jasonrh
2008-01-03, 07:17 PM
'Blanks and Postage'. It is a fairly archaic way of trading shows in which those without interesting material send 2 (or sometimes more) blanks per disc they want back, plus the cost of postage.

It was very popular 10 years ago when blanks cost $2-4 a piece. Its kind of rare now, but some on here still do it.

vladsmythe
2008-01-03, 08:09 PM
I say ban anyone under 1.0 unless they donate $500.00 to be a lifetime "Freind of the Den" "Circle of Gold" member. That would weed out the undesireables.

rosc2112
2008-01-04, 03:40 AM
<delete>Gah lag

rosc2112
2008-01-04, 03:42 AM
Why not just buy boots?

AAR.oner
2008-01-04, 05:39 AM
'Blanks and Postage'. It is a fairly archaic way of trading shows in which those without interesting material send 2 (or sometimes more) blanks per disc they want back, plus the cost of postage.

It was very popular 10 years ago when blanks cost $2-4 a piece. Its kind of rare now, but some on here still do it.

no, that is not a B&P...yer referring to a 2:1, which are not allowed here at TTD...and no, B&Ps and snail mail trading are not archaic -- i'd venture to say there's at least just as much mail trading going on as there is bit torrent these days

for a good explanation of B&P, check out our FAQ as well as here:
http://www.mcnichol.com/bnp/

AAR.oner
2008-01-04, 05:41 AM
guess what folks, no matter how long this thread goes, we still won't sell ratio points or enforce a ratio

just sayin ;)

lbrow65
2008-01-04, 07:56 AM
I have to add my two cents worth seeing someone has said b&p is archaic etc. I have a limited connection and postal trades, vines and b&p's are how I get most of my shows. There are quite alot of us out there who use this method of getting shows. And as another positive you have alot more contact with people from all over the world etc (if you want the warm and fuzzy feelings too). Postal trading is fantastic!!! Everyone should give it a try

vladsmythe
2008-01-04, 09:30 AM
Why not just buy boots?

Buying boots does nothing to help with the operating costs of sites like this. Since the mods give their time and energy freely, the least members can do is make cash donations to help offset the financial burden. I think $10 per month is a reasonable contribution. My last one here was $50 in Sep. or Oct. so I'm just about due. :wave:

Black Dog
2008-01-04, 10:28 AM
guess what folks, no matter how long this thread goes, we still won't sell ratio points or enforce a ratio

just sayin ;)

you fukin tell'em Aaron! :lol

vladsmythe
2008-01-07, 08:57 PM
Today I got a PM from admin which said "We just don't ban people here. Well, rarely." So this poll is pointless.

toys
2008-01-07, 09:37 PM
Buying boots does nothing to help with the operating costs of sites like this. Since the mods give their time and energy freely, the least members can do is make cash donations to help offset the financial burden. I think $10 per month is a reasonable contribution. My last one here was $50 in Sep. or Oct. so I'm just about due. :wave:

Stop donating. We don't want your money.

E_rock
2008-01-07, 09:50 PM
I have to add my two cents worth seeing someone has said b&p is archaic etc. I have a limited connection and postal trades, vines and b&p's are how I get most of my shows. There are quite alot of us out there who use this method of getting shows. And as another positive you have alot more contact with people from all over the world etc (if you want the warm and fuzzy feelings too). Postal trading is fantastic!!! Everyone should give it a try

I have to agree. Most of the gems I have I got through B&P or trade by way of TTD & BC. I wouldn't have gotten them any other way because of official material or TOS. God shave the Queen.

eric182
2008-01-07, 10:17 PM
I say ban them, unless they upload torrents of shows and actually contribute. If they just download and don't atleast try to upload then they don't belong here.

vladsmythe
2008-01-07, 10:23 PM
I say ban them, unless they upload torrents of shows and actually contribute. If they just download and don't atleast try to upload then they don't belong here.

You've seeded some nice things Eric. Thank you!

possessed
2008-01-08, 12:24 AM
Today I got a PM from admin which said "We just don't ban people here. Well, rarely." So this poll is pointless.

Unless they deserve banning. I'm willing to discuss this via PM if you'd like. You might be surprised at what you hear. Feel free to hit me up so we can end this.

KoolKat
2008-01-08, 05:22 AM
I voted give them a warning. I think if you ban them they can always come back under a different name/ ip. I do like the idea of a time delay for people under a certain ratio say 0.25 - 0.5. I think that this will undoubtedly catch the viners in that net. However, I think there should be some appeal process where the viner can ask for the delay to be lifted. But all that sounds complicated for the viner, the mod, etc. I guess I would say public ridicule is probably the best compromise. :lol


I like that...but elaborated.

How about splitting the VBT & ABT into 2 so that the person who uploads the show has a choice of where to put it.
In "X" it's a torrent for all and in "Y" a torrent for the .1's (or whats decided) and above only.

That saves banning AND gives the choice to the uploader on whether ubers can have it.

Yes i know that it could be re-uploaded and put in the "for all".
That's your time delay. ;)

An idea to mull over maybe.Sort of keeps everyone happy really.Even the viners & b&pers.They vine and b&p only as they don't have the speed...............don't they

K_K

vladsmythe
2008-01-08, 11:07 AM
I like that...but elaborated.

How about splitting the VBT & ABT into 2 so that the person who uploads the show has a choice of where to put it.
In "X" it's a torrent for all and in "Y" a torrent for the .1's (or whats decided) and above only.

That saves banning AND gives the choice to the uploader on whether ubers can have it.

Yes i know that it could be re-uploaded and put in the "for all".
That's your time delay. ;)

An idea to mull over maybe.Sort of keeps everyone happy really.Even the viners & b&pers.They vine and b&p only as they don't have the speed...............don't they

K_K

That's an interesting approach KoolKat. I know I would be hurting under that system, but if people are really bothered by low ratios, maybe it's a good idea. Some people are consumed by this issue. On the other hand, regardless of my own ratio I will say this...When I'm transferring my old beta tapes to dvd, and creating all the components of the torrent (checksums, composing my info file for a description, bitrates etc.) I may think which site is the best match for the seed, but I have NEVER cared who downloads it, or what someone's ratio is. I just want to share good stuff.

U2Lynne
2008-01-08, 11:20 AM
I've never understood the whole time delay thing. If you don't let users with low ratios get the torrents for a couple of days, then by the time they do get them, the torrent has a bunch of (good ratio) seeders and a bunch of (bad ratio) leechers and the leechers ratios are just going to go down some more and the seeders ratios are just going to go up. So, how does that help with the ratios of the bad ratio users?

dementrium
2008-01-08, 11:26 AM
The VIP Area suggested by Koolkat could be called "The Wall", as it also has a musical appeal to it.

Please, set the ratio mark at 0.43. :angel: Or at 0.27 (hi, Vlad :wave:).
Whatever you do, PLEASE allow the disabled people to post at the VIP torrents, as I like to troll as much as to download. :angel:

fubar
2008-01-08, 01:30 PM
no VIP

saltman
2008-01-08, 01:32 PM
I've never understood the whole time delay thing. If you don't let users with low ratios get the torrents for a couple of days, then by the time they do get them, the torrent has a bunch of (good ratio) seeders and a bunch of (bad ratio) leechers and the leechers ratios are just going to go down some more and the seeders ratios are just going to go up. So, how does that help with the ratios of the bad ratio users?It doesn't. It's more of a punishment thing. And you bring up good points.

dcbullet
2008-01-08, 01:35 PM
I've never understood the whole time delay thing. If you don't let users with low ratios get the torrents for a couple of days, then by the time they do get them, the torrent has a bunch of (good ratio) seeders and a bunch of (bad ratio) leechers and the leechers ratios are just going to go down some more and the seeders ratios are just going to go up. So, how does that help with the ratios of the bad ratio users?

Agree.

vladsmythe
2008-01-08, 02:55 PM
I've never understood the whole time delay thing. If you don't let users with low ratios get the torrents for a couple of days, then by the time they do get them, the torrent has a bunch of (good ratio) seeders and a bunch of (bad ratio) leechers and the leechers ratios are just going to go down some more and the seeders ratios are just going to go up. So, how does that help with the ratios of the bad ratio users?

It doesn't. People who introduce fresh content, not just a seed from another site should be given double upload credit. Content is King. Oh and I don't give a damn if you want my money or not. I'm still gonna donate. So there!

direwolf-pgh
2008-01-08, 04:00 PM
People who introduce fresh content.. should be given double upload credit. hahahahaha :lol :lol

:mellow:..wait, you're serious about this aren't you.

vladsmythe
2008-01-08, 04:07 PM
hahahahaha :lol :lol

:mellow:..wait, you're serious about this aren't you.

Yes. hahahahahaha:lol:lol:lol

U2Lynne
2008-01-08, 04:11 PM
That would be a couple of additional queries for the announce script and I don't think our server would like that.

vladsmythe
2008-01-08, 04:22 PM
That would be a couple of additional queries for the announce script and I don't think our server would like that.

Just an idea Lynne. I'm kind of giddy because my colonoscopy was a huge success this morning! Not a spec of anything! That means I can continue to be a valued member here for years to come! :thumbsup

possessed
2008-01-08, 05:07 PM
TMI.

Voodoochild137
2008-01-08, 08:41 PM
It doesn't. People who introduce fresh content, not just a seed from another site should be given double upload credit. Content is King. Oh and I don't give a damn if you want my money or not. I'm still gonna donate. So there!

So we should make this like another site where you can pay to get out of ratio violations? Interesting. While I agree new/rare content is great, lets not reinvent the wheel in order to help your ratio. ;)

vladsmythe
2008-01-08, 09:00 PM
So we should make this like another site where you can pay to get out of ratio violations? Interesting. While I agree new/rare content is great, lets not reinvent the wheel in order to help your ratio. ;)

I'm cool with my ratio. I'm cool with uploading great videos noone else has. And I'm cool with donating to every site I belong to. It's not buying ratio.
Hell, I spend a ton on postage just mailing gift cds and dvds (not trade). Other people here have attacked my ratio on mt upload threads, so I am trying to figure out a solution that will make them happy. I've said it before, if people would be happy if I suck on the same download teet for a week to improve my ratio I'll do that. PM me for my list still waiting to be seeded.:wave:

mooncusser
2008-01-08, 09:14 PM
Just an idea Lynne. I'm kind of giddy because my colonoscopy was a huge success this morning! Not a spec of anything! That means I can continue to be a valued member here for years to come! :thumbsup

:worthless

vladsmythe
2008-01-08, 09:15 PM
Look, this thread is tired. I don't know what "Thoughtless" means. If the mods are not gonna enforce ratio standards so be it. Some people have nothing but big ratios to be proud of and that's fine. I respect that accomplishment. Some people put the content on the table for others to make their ratios grow big. That's good too. This site somehow finds a balance which makes it fun for everyone. Let's start a new poll:
Should thoughtless seeders be banned? That is much more interesting to me.
- vladsmythe, The Graceful Duck Archive

ep620
2008-01-08, 10:50 PM
There should be a separate torrent link for people with a ratio under .5. So all the bad sharers have to share with each other. :lol And no one can finish the download until they have given back double their current ratio. :thumbsup

vladsmythe
2008-01-08, 11:41 PM
There should be a separate torrent link for people with a ratio under .5. So all the bad sharers have to share with each other. :lol And no one can finish the download until they have given back double their current ratio. :thumbsup

You're a beauty man. Just for that, I'm gonna seed the elusive, treasured and uncirculated 3rd DVD set of Grateful Dead 12-31-87.

vladsmythe
2008-01-08, 11:46 PM
ep620 - Uploads: zero
Ratio 2.32 (very good)
vladsmythe - Ratio .26 (bad)
Uploads:

Bob Marley 1987-10-27 West 57th CBS (NTSC) - ACTIVE
Various xxxx-xx-xx Top of the Pops (NTSC) - ACTIVE
The Rolling Stones 1994-xx-xx Conversations VH1 (NTSC) - ACTIVE
The Beatles 1994-02-xx 30 Year Anniversary (Pt 2) (NTSC) - ACTIVE
Various Artists 1960's It Crawled Out of the Vaults - KSAN 66-68 - CD6 (SHN) - ACTIVE
Various Artists 1960s It Crawled Out of the Vaults - KSAN 66-68 - CD5 (SHN) - ACTIVE
Various Artists 1960s It Crawled Out of the Vaults - KSAN 66-68 - CD4 (SHN) - ACTIVE
Various Artists 1960s It Crawled Out of the Vaults - KSAN 66-68 -CD3 (SHN) - ACTIVE
Various Artists 1960s It Crawled Out of the Vaults - KSAN 66-68 CD2 (SHN) - ACTIVE
Various Artists 1960s It Crawled Out of the Vaults - KSAN 66-68 - CD1 (SHN) - ACTIVE
David Crosby 1993-01-19 Whoopi Goldberg Show (NTSC) - ACTIVE
Various Artists 1980s Solid Gold In Concert (NTSC) - ACTIVE
Crosby, Stills and Nash 1987-10-03 West 57th (CBS) (NTSC) - ACTIVE
Simon & Garfunkel 1993-09-30 Dateline NBC (NTSC) - ACTIVE
The Rolling Stones 1994-xx-xx Voodoo Lounge Special (MTV) (NTSC) - ACTIVE
Apollo Hall Of Fame 1993-xx-xx New York, NY (NTSC) - ACTIVE
Jethro Tull 1993-1995 Various TV Appearances (NTSC) - ACTIVE
Grateful Dead 1985-xx-xx West 57th (NTSC) - ACTIVE
The Beatles 1994-02-xx 30th US Anniversary (CBS) (NTSC) -
The Rolling Stones 1989-09-22 20/20 (NTSC) -
The Rolling Stones 1994-11-13 60 Minutes (NTSC) -
Jimi Hendrix 1994-06-01 The Conspiracy Tapes (NTSC) -
Jerry Garcia 1991-02-27 "Lifelines" (NTSC) -
Bob Weir 1992-05-10 Cachagua, CA (NTSC) -
Dizzy Gillespie xxxx-xx-xx TV Appearances '90-'91 (NTSC) -
Ken Kesey & Merry Pranksters 1999-xx-xx "Alive and Trippin" VH1 (NTSC) -
Ringo Starr 1998-06-17 New York, NY (NTSC) -
The Turtles & The Grass Roots 1992-xx-xx VH1 Hitmakers (NTSC) -
Grateful Dead 1985-05-xx 20th Anniversary Profiles (NTSC) -
Grateful Dead 1991-xx-xx Edge PBS plus CBS News (NTSC) -
Keith Richards 1996-xx-xx VH1 to 1 (NTSC) -
The Moody Blues 1986-xx-xx Cover Story (NTSC) -
Paul McCartney 1986-xx-xx Cover Story (NTSC) -
Jimmy Page & Robert Plant 1994-xx-xx "Ever Onward" (NTSC) -
Ray Charles 1994-07-06 "Now" (NTSC) -
Red Knuckles and The Trailblazers 1988-xx-xx Nashville, TN (NTSC) -
Paul McCartney 1991-11-17 (NTSC) -
Paul McCartney 1993-xx-xx VH1 to 1 (NTSC) -
John Lennon 1986-xx-xx MTV (NTSC) -
Pete Best 1993-09-06 Chicago, IL (NTSC) -

I win.
You need to get your head out of your ass and share something besides bad vibes man.

chinajoe
2008-01-08, 11:48 PM
how about those that dont upload/download and only go snail mail?

vladsmythe
2008-01-09, 12:01 AM
You are the best. It all changed with the internet. We used to copy a couple of cassettes over some beers and things, and forge a strong friendship based on our love for the music. Now the snail mail thing is as close to being organic due to the communication that happens between traders with regard to shows. I'll trade anything, and if you have nothing to trade, I'll just send it. PM me chinajoe.

possessed
2008-01-09, 12:12 AM
ep620 - Uploads: zero
Ratio 2.32 (very good)
vladsmythe - Ratio .26 (bad)
Uploads:

whole buncha stuff you consider important

I win.
You need to get your head out of your ass and share something besides bad vibes man.

Stop patting yourself on the back before you break your arm.

And stop calling people with 0 uploads bad.

Yes, you give Lynne money. And yes, you upload stuff here. So do I and many other people also. The only difference is we don't beg for praise and worship like you do. You are not Jesus, so stop trying to act like it.

You are one pathetic old man. :disbelief

vladsmythe
2008-01-09, 12:19 AM
I'm happy, not old, a dad, a husband, a world traveler, Deadhead, and I like Senator Obama. Shut up. The comment about breaking my arm was uncalled for. This should be kept in the lounge. You are distracting me from uploading content. Please do what's best for people who come to share music and stop dwelling on bullshit like ratios. You are just getting in the way of important things. Thanks, and have a nice day.

possessed
2008-01-09, 12:33 AM
I'm happy, not old, a dad, a husband, a world traveler, Deadhead, and I like Senator Obama. Shut up. The comment about breaking my arm was uncalled for. This should be kept in the lounge. You are distracting me from uploading content. Please do what's best for people who come to share music and stop dwelling on bullshit like ratios. You are just getting in the way of important things. Thanks, and have a nice day.

Whoopty do. I'm happy, not old, a dad, a world traveler, a music lover and hate all candidates. What the fuck does this have to do with your constant begging for approval and adoration?

Distracting you from uploading content? :lol:clap: Worst excuse ever for a bad ratio. Thank you for playing.

I'd keep this in the lounge, but you are banned from there because you have the tendency to act a little bit irrational. You know, like posting something stupid and redundant through out numerous forums and threads without merit and looking like an idiot. Just be glad you haven't been banned form this whole site.

You still want to carry this out in public or do you want to try using the PM option I gave you earlier?

The option is yours old man. Good nite. :wave:

ep620
2008-01-09, 12:39 AM
I win.
You need to get your head out of your ass and share something besides bad vibes man.

Win???? What did you win? I got a nice laugh about all of this. If you can't at least find some humor in my post, than maybe you take this too serious. Theres no bad vibes. Just humor.


BTW: I could pull some stuff out that hasn't circulate in a while. But I choose to go back and help people who are stuck on a torrent because someone did a hit and run, and left them hanging. :wave:

vladsmythe
2008-01-09, 12:40 AM
I should point out that I said MY ratio was bad. I've never begged. I don't take a fish and feed the masses, cure lepers, or give eyesight to the blind, so your Jesus analagy is trite...having said that, I think your avatar is dark and could use a makeover. Nothing personal man. If I may, could I suggest you eat some veggies and get some excersise?

vladsmythe
2008-01-09, 12:41 AM
Win???? What did you win? I got a nice laugh about all of this. If you can't at least find some humor in my post, than maybe you take this too serious. Theres no bad vibes. Just humor.


BTW: I could pull some stuff out that hasn't circulate in a while. But I choose to go back and help people who are stuck on a torrent because someone did a hit and run, and left them hanging. :wave:

I do that too.

vladsmythe
2008-01-09, 12:48 AM
Possessed. Your a little nutty, but I sort of like you. Goodnight Mi Compadre.

Voodoochild137
2008-01-09, 01:44 AM
Please do what's best for people who come to share music and stop dwelling on bullshit like ratios.

So why do you care so much when people mention your ratio, if you didn't you would let it go.

jalew
2008-01-12, 04:01 PM
How can you even have this conversation when this site's ratios ARE NOT EVEN ACCURATE? I love this site, but it's insanely frustrating to deal with. I have a show now that I've seeded to a 3.20 ratio and this site has me at --. WTF? This isn't the first time. It's all the time with TTD. Every other tracker I use either works well or has a specific system to deal with ratio issues. Not the TTD. I can get weeks worth of suggestions and ideas as to what it is but never any resolution from TTD. Ban leechers? Why don't you focus on correct ratios instead of banning people?

U2Lynne
2008-01-12, 05:13 PM
How can you even have this conversation when this site's ratios ARE NOT EVEN ACCURATE? I love this site, but it's insanely frustrating to deal with. I have a show now that I've seeded to a 3.20 ratio and this site has me at --. WTF? This isn't the first time. It's all the time with TTD. Every other tracker I use either works well or has a specific system to deal with ratio issues. Not the TTD. I can get weeks worth of suggestions and ideas as to what it is but never any resolution from TTD. Ban leechers? Why don't you focus on correct ratios instead of banning people?
When you are a seeder on a show with 0 leechers, guess what? Your ratio will remain at --- no matter how long you are on it (which is the case with the torrent where your ratio says ---). We only keep track of ratios since the last time you started your torrent, which is different than many other sites. And that isn't going to change here.

jalew
2008-01-12, 05:51 PM
[quote=jalew;772995]
When you are a seeder on a show with 0 leechers, guess what? Your ratio will remain at --- no matter how long you are on it (which is the case with the torrent where your ratio says ---). We only keep track of ratios since the last time you started your torrent, which is different than many other sites. And that isn't going to change here.

Well, actually, Lynne you are not referring to the same show (Brecker Bros. 7-16-95) that I was talking about, which now shows a full 26 MB of 1.1 GB uploaded.
With all due respect, you are quick to shoot down all complaints of TTD but not so quick to resolve TTD's issues with ratios. I'm not the only one that has brought this to TTD's staffs attention and I'm not the one who continues to feel their ratio is incorrect.
I appreciate this site as well as your efforts to keep it running smoothly. I don't appreciate the tone of your response. My original comment was in response this thread and the conversation relating to banning "leechers". It wasn't a dig at you. You've tried to help me as well as countless others in the past. Thank you again, Lynne. I hope you have a nice day.:D

U2Lynne
2008-01-12, 06:14 PM
When you are a seeder on a show with 0 leechers, guess what? Your ratio will remain at --- no matter how long you are on it (which is the case with the torrent where your ratio says ---). We only keep track of ratios since the last time you started your torrent, which is different than many other sites. And that isn't going to change here.

Well, actually, Lynne you are not referring to the same show (Brecker Bros. 7-16-95) that I was talking about, which now shows a full 26 MB of 1.1 GB uploaded.
With all due respect, you are quick to shoot down all complaints of TTD but not so quick to resolve TTD's issues with ratios. I'm not the only one that has brought this to TTD's staffs attention and I'm not the one who continues to feel their ratio is incorrect.
I appreciate this site as well as your efforts to keep it running smoothly. I don't appreciate the tone of your response. My original comment was in response this thread and the conversation relating to banning "leechers". It wasn't a dig at you. You've tried to help me as well as countless others in the past. Thank you again, Lynne. I hope you have a nice day.:D
I am referring to this Michael Brecker show: http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51505 There have been NO leechers on there since you posted last, at which time you had 0 upload and 0 download and you still have 0 upload and 0 download on the show. That is what it should say. If your client says differently, then your client is at fault. If there are no NON-DHT leechers, then you cannot possibly have any upload on TTD. We don't do anything here about DHT except keep telling users to turn it off on their clients or their stats will not get counted on this tracker if they are exchanging information with someone through DHT. I have had many users tell me that turning DHT off in their client totally fixed the issue with their stats.

mooncusser
2008-01-12, 06:51 PM
Ever notice how people who think their ratio is wrong never think the error is in their favor?

Inmyheart
2008-01-12, 07:03 PM
I have noticed, too, that the share ratios do not seem to reflect the real uploads, e.g. my share ratio should be a bit higher than it is.

I'm not complaining just stating it.

I know I had a relatively even share ratio (something like 0.99 or 0.97) before I started downloading 2 DVDs = about 8 GB. Now I'm still sharing these two R.E.M. DVDs and according to azureus I have uploaded 3.22 GB of the first one and 3.89 GB of the second one so far.

However, according to the data given on top of the site I have currently downloaded 21.47 GB and uploaded 19.11 GB = 2.36 GB are missing until an even ratio of 1.00.

Once again, I'm not complaining I have just noticed this and would like to mention it here. I'm very grateful to get the stuff and I don't mind uploading a GB more I just find it very strange.

For someone who has more problems uploading it could be a problem to get a good ratio, though.

direwolf-pgh
2008-01-12, 07:10 PM
jerks

U2Lynne
2008-01-12, 07:29 PM
I have noticed, too, that the share ratios do not seem to reflect the real uploads, e.g. my share ratio should be a bit higher than it is.

I'm not complaining just stating it.

I know I had a relatively even share ratio (something like 0.99 or 0.97) before I started downloading 2 DVDs = about 8 GB. Now I'm still sharing these two R.E.M. DVDs and according to azureus I have uploaded 3.22 GB of the first one and 3.89 GB of the second one so far.

However, according to the data given on top of the site I have currently downloaded 21.47 GB and uploaded 19.11 GB = 2.36 GB are missing until an even ratio of 1.00.

Once again, I'm not complaining I have just noticed this and would like to mention it here. I'm very grateful to get the stuff and I don't mind uploading a GB more I just find it very strange.

For someone who has more problems uploading it could be a problem to get a good ratio, though.
Do you have DHT turned off in Azurues? By default, it is on, so if you have done nothing about it, then it will be on. This hurts you because if someone else has DHT on, then they may connect to you using DHT and then all the data exchanged between the two of you will not be seen by the tracker at all. DHT is a way of talking to other clients by bypassing the tracker.

Quoted from this thread (dated 2006, but I think it's still valid): http://archief.retecool.com/forum/threads.php?id=14344_0_20_0_C

Disabling DHT in Azureus
>Tools >Options >Connection >under "Peer Sources - Select the default permitted sources for peer connections" only check "From a tracker"
>Tools >Options >Plugins >Distributed DB >uncheck "Enable the distributed database"
>Tools >Options >Plugins >Distributed Tracker >uncheck "Only track normal torrents when their tracker is unavailable"
>Tools >Options >Sharing >check "Private torrent - only accept torrents from the tracker (This should automatically grey out and disable "Allow decentralized tracker when tracker is unavailable")
>Save >restart Azureus
You should see a red dot and "Disabled" on the bottom of the main Azureus window.
See the note under "Update" on this page.

jalew
2008-01-12, 08:20 PM
Thanks again U2 Lynne.

Thanks Inmyheart for sharing your experience. I have DHT disabled and still have the same issue. It's just nice to be reminded that I am not the only one...especially after direwolf's incredibly vulgar personal attacks.

Again, I appreciate all that goes down here and it isn't my intention to "bite the hand that feeds me". It is, however, my intention to have a correct ratio. One that actually represents the amount I've shared. If I have reason to believe it's incorrect, is it wrong for me to say so? I hope not.

jalew
2008-01-12, 08:34 PM
Lynne, I was hoping to send you a PM but it seems I can't so here goes...

I wanted to comment on the show you referred to (M. Brecker 9-29-88) in your last response to me. When you stated I have uploaded 0 and if my client says so, it is at fault.
My client shows I have uploaded 978.30 MB at a 2.015 ratio. Are you saying this is completely wrong? Are you saying I've uploaded nothing?
For instance, I am seeding Breker Bros. 7-3-93 right now. I am watching it seed at 38 KB right now. I am connected to 2 of 6 leechers. But the site shows me at --. Are you saying that I'm not seeding this at all?
Thanks again for your help.

bot
2008-01-13, 01:48 AM
Lynne, I was hoping to send you a PM but it seems I can't so here goes...You don't take a hint well, do you sparky ?!
You're posts and demands were rude. You sound a jerk.
Here's a clue. You need to apologise. Until then :ignore:

You can't even configure your own firewall.
Now you believe you're some kind of tracker expert :lmao:

mooncusser
2008-01-13, 01:55 AM
You can't even configure your own firewall.
Now you believe you're some kind of tracker expert :lmao:

+1 :lol

Inmyheart
2008-01-14, 02:43 PM
Do you have DHT turned off in Azurues? By default, it is on, so if you have done nothing about it, then it will be on. This hurts you because if someone else has DHT on, then they may connect to you using DHT and then all the data exchanged between the two of you will not be seen by the tracker at all. DHT is a way of talking to other clients by bypassing the tracker.

Quoted from this thread (dated 2006, but I think it's still valid): http://archief.retecool.com/forum/threads.php?id=14344_0_20_0_C

Disabling DHT in Azureus
>Tools >Options >Connection >under "Peer Sources - Select the default permitted sources for peer connections" only check "From a tracker"
>Tools >Options >Plugins >Distributed DB >uncheck "Enable the distributed database"
>Tools >Options >Plugins >Distributed Tracker >uncheck "Only track normal torrents when their tracker is unavailable"
>Tools >Options >Sharing >check "Private torrent - only accept torrents from the tracker (This should automatically grey out and disable "Allow decentralized tracker when tracker is unavailable")
>Save >restart Azureus
You should see a red dot and "Disabled" on the bottom of the main Azureus window.
See the note under "Update" on this page.

Thanks U2Lynne for your help. The truth is I don't know If I have disabled DHT. Probably not if you say it's the default setting.

I can't even do what you suggested since my azureus programme shows everything in German.:rolleyes:

Don't worry. It's not that much of a problem for me, anyway. Thanks.

U2Lynne
2008-01-14, 03:18 PM
I can't even do what you suggested since my azureus programme shows everything in German.:rolleyes:
You just made my lemonade go up my nose! :roflol:

Here, this may help you: http://faq.vuze.com/?EntryID=122&View=entry

:roflol:

Inmyheart
2008-01-16, 12:01 PM
I can't even do what you suggested since my azureus programme shows everything in German.:rolleyes:
You just made my lemonade go up my nose! :roflol:

Here, this may help you: http://faq.vuze.com/?EntryID=122&View=entry

:roflol:

But I'm German. :D

Really, it's no problem, I have almost reached a 1.0 share ratio again, anyway.

Thanks a lot for helping!

bannanna
2008-01-20, 11:10 PM
I appreciate the music/vids I have obtained at TTD and make every effort to keep my ratio up. Having read some (serious) suggestions here of which each has its merits hopefully to assist the moderators in addressing this issue. BUT . Just to throw a spanner in the works it poses the question of " how do we ban thoughtless seeders" (ie),""seeders"" who appear to be seeding but are not uploading or turning their torrent off or just clogging up the system by letting you get so far then closing off amongst other annoying habits (probably get their kicks by annoying/pissing people off) ive also noticed it is people with lower ratios and ethics IQs even. You seem to get to know the regulars/acceptable ratio members etc here and if I can seed/help in any way I will...however I feel that not only myself but others feel the same way in declining from assisting PPLZ ....might just make up my own blacklist of members ??? :D At the end of the day, its just about how each member goes about dealing with these issues....PS. the idea of access to certain levels for certain ratio (below 1:1) members seems to be the go..of course in consultation with the mods acces can be granted based solely on their merits to those below 1:1 and monitored ???. KEEP ON SHARING :wtf: :hmm: :rolleyes: ;) :D :):)

BaconAerosmith
2008-02-11, 01:23 AM
My only thoughts are there should be some kind of leecher blocking method where you should say a few words of kindness to download anything. It keeps up those internet relationships.:wave::wave::clap:

A Few words of appreciation never go astray.:lol4:

Jetrell69
2008-02-11, 12:26 PM
I appreciate the music/vids I have obtained at TTD and make every effort to keep my ratio up. Having read some (serious) suggestions here of which each has its merits hopefully to assist the moderators in addressing this issue. BUT . Just to throw a spanner in the works it poses the question of " how do we ban thoughtless seeders" (ie),""seeders"" who appear to be seeding but are not uploading or turning their torrent off or just clogging up the system by letting you get so far then closing off amongst other annoying habits (probably get their kicks by annoying/pissing people off) ive also noticed it is people with lower ratios and ethics IQs even. You seem to get to know the regulars/acceptable ratio members etc here and if I can seed/help in any way I will...however I feel that not only myself but others feel the same way in declining from assisting PPLZ ....might just make up my own blacklist of members ??? :D At the end of the day, its just about how each member goes about dealing with these issues....PS. the idea of access to certain levels for certain ratio (below 1:1) members seems to be the go..of course in consultation with the mods acces can be granted based solely on their merits to those below 1:1 and monitored ???. KEEP ON SHARING :wtf: :hmm: :rolleyes: ;) :D :):)

OMG.....lmao!!!

Torrent clients like Azureus will queue torrents until more seeders are needed....so why would you band those folks? If they hit n run all the time, that's a different story, and their ratio will show it. I'd say a time limit to allow them to get back their fair use ratio...even with a limited connection because vines/b&p's are still an option for sharing here...if they cannot comply within the time frame or they chose not to become visibly involved in the other options available...then yes, find the boot and give it a big swing.

;)

Jetrell69
2008-02-11, 12:47 PM
The big problem is..... we aren't just a torrent site, like DIME. It would be easy to think of banning or limiting uploads for people with low ratios if all we were was a torrent site. But, what about those that download and then offer a Vine for every show they get? That is 'giving away' a whole show, kinda like uploading that amount to someone. Or, what about those that offer up a ton of B&Ps? The whole reason I added a list of Vines and B&Ps to a person's profile is so people can see if they offered them and then take that into consideration along with the ratio when they are asked to open a window.

These guys who have poor ratios and then come around asking for reseeds probably have a much lower chance of a reseed than someone who has a good ratio or someone who has also started Vines or offered B&Ps. Karma comes around to get them. Notice how that dudogger guy didn't even like the fact that we *show* ratios. He knows he is getting judged by it and doesn't like it (and may be embarrassed by it). I figure karma comes around to get these guys. Maybe not now, maybe not next week, but they will ask for a show to get reseeded and will have people ignore the request because of their ratio and lack of giving in other ways.

I guess this is what I was kinda thinking....it seems karma DOES have a way, even @<hidden> DaD, of getting the best of folks. I just turned a reseed request down @<hidden> DaD due to the requesters share ratio (up/down) stats.....and I let them know it.

sorry for post-whoring.....I couldn't help it..... :)

;)

dementrium
2008-02-11, 01:16 PM
I appreciate the music/vids I have obtained at TTD and make every effort to keep my ratio up. Having read some (serious) suggestions here of which each has its merits hopefully to assist the moderators in addressing this issue. BUT . Just to throw a spanner in the works it poses the question of " how do we ban thoughtless seeders" (ie),""seeders"" who appear to be seeding but are not uploading or turning their torrent off or just clogging up the system by letting you get so far then closing off amongst other annoying habits (probably get their kicks by annoying/pissing people off) ive also noticed it is people with lower ratios and ethics IQs even. You seem to get to know the regulars/acceptable ratio members etc here and if I can seed/help in any way I will...however I feel that not only myself but others feel the same way in declining from assisting PPLZ ....might just make up my own blacklist of members ??? :D At the end of the day, its just about how each member goes about dealing with these issues....PS. the idea of access to certain levels for certain ratio (below 1:1) members seems to be the go..of course in consultation with the mods acces can be granted based solely on their merits to those below 1:1 and monitored ???. KEEP ON SHARING :wtf: :hmm: :rolleyes: ;) :D :):)

People who ends ten-line paragraphs with six different smilies should be interdicted.

rspencer
2008-02-11, 04:13 PM
People who ends ten-line paragraphs with six different smilies should be interdicted.

interdict ( ) tr.v. , -dicted , -dicting , -dicts . To prohibit or place under an ecclesiastical or legal sanction.

To use the usual definition, I think denying them a Christian burial is a bit harsh, just for extreme smilie use.

And that would be end, not ends.

And it's 7 smilies, not 6.

But who's counting? :)

BaconAerosmith
2008-02-11, 09:21 PM
As a friend to another I will try to be as nice as possible, but I was thinking that the idea to uploading torrents apart from sharing is to better your ratio, you also have upped almost twice as much as I have, I just cant work it out ?

vladsmythe
2008-02-11, 09:50 PM
As a friend to another I will try to be as nice as possible, but I was thinking that the idea to uploading torrents apart from sharing is to better your ratio, you also have upped almost twice as much as I have, I just cant work it out ?[/QUOTE]

Since we don't hang out, drink beers and stuff, and spin a couple of cassettes like we used to, the only way to share is at places like this. I'm sitting on 900 hrs of video that does nobody any good unless I share it. As I digitize my tape, I share with the people most likely to enjoy it and pass it on to others. I don't give a rat's ass about my ratio. Others apparently do. If the Traders Den enforces a ratio requirement, I'll stop seeding videos here and sit on torrents 24/7. In the end, we all have something to bring to the table here. Gotta go now, Pulled Pork Sandwiches are calling!

ShutTheFuckUpDonny
2008-02-11, 11:28 PM
The big problem is..... we aren't just a torrent site, like DIME. It would be easy to think of banning or limiting uploads for people with low ratios if all we were was a torrent site. But, what about those that download and then offer a Vine for every show they get? That is 'giving away' a whole show, kinda like uploading that amount to someone. Or, what about those that offer up a ton of B&Ps? The whole reason I added a list of Vines and B&Ps to a person's profile is so people can see if they offered them and then take that into consideration along with the ratio when they are asked to open a window.

These guys who have poor ratios and then come around asking for reseeds probably have a much lower chance of a reseed than someone who has a good ratio or someone who has also started Vines or offered B&Ps. Karma comes around to get them. Notice how that dudogger guy didn't even like the fact that we *show* ratios. He knows he is getting judged by it and doesn't like it (and may be embarrassed by it). I figure karma comes around to get these guys. Maybe not now, maybe not next week, but they will ask for a show to get reseeded and will have people ignore the request because of their ratio and lack of giving in other ways.


I think it's an all together bad idea. Not that my oppinion really matters. I'm working on my ratio now and can only upload at 40kbs a second so it takes time for people like me.

I DID however vote for an under .50 ratio ban, only if they can still upload.
And I only voted that incase someone decides they are going through with this, horrible horrible idea.

Every other bootlegg site pretty much does this, why do we have to?
Someone with a bad ratio doesn't quite mean they are bad traders.
There in lies the problem :hmm:

P.s>
vladsmythe - we have never traded or anything but you upload some of the most kickass torrents.
I'm glad you came here from tapecity.........
It's people like you, who are offline traders as well as online that are the whole argument against ratio bans,
I would really hate to see you go man.

Just my $0.42,
TheBigLebowski

U2Lynne
2008-02-11, 11:36 PM
Every other bootlegg site pretty much does this, why do we have to?
Someone with a bad ratio doesn't quite mean they are bad traders.
There in lies the problem :hmm:
Anybody can start a topic to get opinions. This thread is almost a year old. If you look at the results, about half say no banning. I think the poll is interesting just to see what people think. This site has been around for over three years with no share ratio enforcement. I think most people try to be conscientious and share in some way.

vladsmythe
2008-02-12, 12:38 AM
I think it's an all together bad idea. Not that my oppinion really matters. I'm working on my ratio now and can only upload at 40kbs a second so it takes time for people like me.

I DID however vote for an under .50 ratio ban, only if they can still upload.
And I only voted that incase someone decides they are going through with this, horrible horrible idea.

Every other bootlegg site pretty much does this, why do we have to?
Someone with a bad ratio doesn't quite mean they are bad traders.
There in lies the problem :hmm:

P.s>
vladsmythe - we have never traded or anything but you upload some of the most kickass torrents.
I'm glad you came here from tapecity.........
It's people like you, who are offline traders as well as online that are the whole argument against ratio bans,
I would really hate to see you go man.

Just my $0.42,
TheBigLebowski[/QUOTE]

That's real nice of you to say. I should mention that members at another site have gifted me 10 GB of ratio credit as a way to thank me for my efforts on my latest seed there.
I really appreciate that because it keeps me out of the fray of criticism that I encounter here, although I have never seen any personal attacks of any kind there. There is a wisdom in keeping the seeders happy - that their efforts are appreciated as well as essential. It's no skin off of the back of someone who has a 4.0 ratio to give some ratio credit to a .28 if the .28 is seeding something of value to that member. I know that with my .28 (which I have raised from .26 a month ago) I am a 2nd class citizen here and open to ridicule by many. I know that some elite people here have an "infinite" ratio, and get no criticism. I do know that "thank you" from members makes me want to hang out here and share my collection, and negative personal attacks from members and on occasion staff, makes me ill. Ultimately, the abilty to share ratio credit strengthens the community, without opening the ethics question with regard to "selling ratio". It encourages sharing and eliminates the caustic and corrosive negativity that rears it's ugly head much too often here.

AAR.oner
2008-02-12, 04:51 AM
i can only upload at 40k/s and have no problem keeping a decent ratio

and anyone who can doenload a TB can easily upload their fair share *if* they wanted to...period

anything else is just a poor excuse

vladsmythe
2008-02-12, 08:54 AM
i can only upload at 40k/s and have no problem keeping a decent ratio

and anyone who can doenload a TB can easily upload their fair share *if* they wanted to...period

anything else is just a poor excuse

You're absolutely right. I have already admitted that I'm a bad member. I'll try to work on my ratio. I'm sorry it took this "intervention". I know it's just "Tough Love". One day at a time....:thumbsup

dementrium
2008-02-12, 02:28 PM
I think it's an all together bad idea. Not that my oppinion really matters. I'm working on my ratio now and can only upload at 40kbs a second so it takes time for people like me.


***WHINY POST WARNING***

Only at 40 KB/s!? Are you kidding.

Most of 2006 I had 8 KB/s. Later, "they" "upgraded" us (with a big fanfare & bells) to 16 KB/s (B.S.). Naturally, we only pay $ 66 / month.

Of course, any time of the day I can do the next step and get the top-of-the-line ultra mega enterprise fixed-ip non-disconnecting-every-12-hours service.
Glance it in the picture.

(Gotta love socialism & monopolies, in any order) :down:

radfordaj23
2008-02-12, 10:33 PM
i don't think anybody should get banned for their ratio but i do think that people that have never uploaded a torrent should not be able to post in threads. what do you guys think?

rspencer
2008-02-12, 10:53 PM
I think that would make it quite difficult for the bandwidth challenged to continue vining & doing B&Ps.

I also think it might be a bit difficult to post that first torrent without being able to post. :hmm:

vladsmythe
2008-02-12, 11:00 PM
rspencer, that was a very good point...:thumbsup

vladsmythe
2008-02-12, 11:15 PM
i don't think anybody should get banned for their ratio but i do think that people that have never uploaded a torrent should not be able to post in threads. what do you guys think?


I think it's a very honest point you make.

starchild67
2008-03-04, 06:16 AM
anyone who makes music downloading political is a nut, politics and music don't go together. i think you have way to much time to spend on nonsense , flac sucks by the way:disbelief

Hell Yeah
2008-03-04, 11:55 AM
On my side of things, I can seed only what I download. I have Comcast and they won't let me seed my own torrent for some reason. I have tried on many different trackers and get the same result. Keeping a high ratio is quite tough but not impossible as long as I watch what I download.

A ban on posting in threads would not be a wise decision as that will just create a community of leechers who may never be able to post their own torrent due to restrictions from their IP provider. and then they won't be able to explain themselves if questioned plus you can forget about people saying "thanks"

There is no clear solution as everything you decide becomes political. This is a great community please don't destroy it with more rules.

Tubular
2008-03-04, 01:08 PM
I read about this ingenious method to seed a torrent if you can't normally seed one because of an ISP preventing it:

-Create the .torrent file as normal, with every file that goes with the show
-When you seed the show, move one file (like the .txt or .ffp file) from the show folder to a different location on your hard drive. Everyone will get to 99.9%
-now that everyone is at 99.9%, remove a different file from the show folder, but add the missing original file
-Voila! everyone completes their download, and you have never shown more than 99.9% complete

:D :cool:

vanalan09
2008-03-04, 03:43 PM
It makes no differece to my internet provider All up or down bytes count toward my total up and down for the month Wich is 100 G. This costs me X- Dollars a month.So if I want to keep my ratio even, Half of my X - dollars per month pays for my upload ratio .So why do you want to punish the seeders and reward the thoughtless leechers ?Last time i checked you can get internet via sat dish anywhere in Usa and Canada .Its called dishnet so lets stop blaming ISP providers for your poor ratios and switch to a system that allows you to seed .This ain't a welfare line baby .

Hell Yeah
2008-03-04, 04:53 PM
It makes no differece to my internet provider All up or down bytes count toward my total up and down for the month Wich is 100 G. This costs me X- Dollars a month.So if I want to keep my ratio even, Half of my X - dollars per month pays for my upload ratio .So why do you want to punish the seeders and reward the thoughtless leechers ?Last time i checked you can get internet via sat dish anywhere in Usa and Canada .Its called dishnet so lets stop blaming ISP providers for your poor ratios and switch to a system that allows you to seed .This ain't a welfare line baby .

I for one, am locked into Comcast as it is part of a shared network of which I have no control over. So, getting another Internet server is completely out of the question for me unless the entire network wants to switch providers.

So you see, your hostility won't change what cannot be fixed as simply as you stated.

vanalan09
2008-03-04, 05:56 PM
:)No hostility intended Hell Yeah, other peoples ratios are not my business . I have a neighbor with an 18 sat dish for internet ,works almost anywhere he says.But I do agree with you 100 % , people who can't change providers like comcast should not be penalized in any way .

vladsmythe
2008-03-04, 06:22 PM
:)No hostility intended Hell Yeah, other peoples ratios are not my business . I have a neighbor with an 18 sat dish for internet ,works almost anywhere he says.But I do agree with you 100 % , people who can't change providers like comcast should not be penalized in any way .

I'm with you valhala, I mean vanilla. Ban them I say! After all, they're THOUGHTLESS! THIS AINT THE WELLFARE LINE OBAMA-LOVIN" LOSERS!:wave:

Tubular
2008-03-04, 11:05 PM
I read about this ingenious method to seed a torrent if you can't normally seed one because of an ISP preventing it:

-Create the .torrent file as normal, with every file that goes with the show
-When you seed the show, move one file (like the .txt or .ffp file) from the show folder to a different location on your hard drive. Everyone will get to 99.9%
-now that everyone is at 99.9%, remove a different file from the show folder, but add the missing original file
-Voila! everyone completes their download, and you have never shown more than 99.9% complete

:D :cool:

revised:

-Create the .torrent file as normal, with every file that goes with the show
-Before you seed the show, move one file (like the .txt or .ffp file, I'll call it file A) from the show folder to a different location on your hard drive.
-Start seeding; lots of people will get to 99.9%
-Now that lots of people are at 99.9%, stop seeding the torrent (hit the red square) and remove a different file (I'll call it file B) from the show folder. Add file A back into the show folder. Before you start seeding again, make sure your client is set to not download file B, as this would make you a seeder and then you might not be able to seed out file A
-Resume seeding, and voila! everyone completes their download, and you have never shown more than 99.9% complete

:)

possessed
2008-03-04, 11:32 PM
Not everyone cares about ratios. I know I'm not crazy about them and don't 'penalize' those who have low ratios. But, it does matter to some people.

I fully understand that not everyone can have a high ratio. But The few that download 800GB and only upload 36GB are not helping. GE used to fire it's bottom 10% performing employees annually. This encouraged a better performance out of all it's employees. Maybe if we employed such tactics more people would either try to stay connected or learn why they are firewalled/blocked/ISP limited etc.

U2Lynne
2008-03-05, 11:39 AM
These are the users who actually give a d*mn about this thread and keep bumping it as if it were important:

Name Here Posts
vladsmythe 35
U2Lynne 11
direwolf-pgh 9
Chachi420 8
Phishblowz 8
possessed 7
jameskg 4
freezer 4
dementrium 4
Hell Yeah 4
AAR.oner 4
Tubular 4
trustthex 4
jalew 4
rosc2112 3
Inmyheart 3
mooncusser 3
vanalan09 2
ep620 2
Jetrell69 2
Voodoochild137 2
BaconAerosmith 2
saltman 2
schmoe75 2
xequence 2
rspencer 2
shopkin 2
Black Dog 1
aliennut 1
starchild67 1
ShutTheFuckUpDonny 1
chinajoe 1
mbself 1
Festafarian 1
lbrow65 1
bot 1
radfordaj23 1
Darkcycle 1
fubar 1
acov 1
KoolKat 1
eric182 1
slewofboots 1
Calmypal 1
E_rock 1
Mr. Creosote 1
bannanna 1
toys 1
B*andolier 1
jasonrh 1
dcbullet 1
bonzobonham 1
captain beyond 1
Paul56 1

GhostInTheMachine
2008-03-05, 12:18 PM
either enforce or remove the ratio stats :thumbsupagree. no post counts / no ratio stats.
make them admin only or something.
they serve no purpose.

U2Lynne
2008-03-05, 12:25 PM
either enforce or remove the ratio stats :thumbsupagree. no post counts / no ratio stats.
make them admin only or something.
they serve no purpose.
You can stop seeing post counts in your User CP > Options

splumer
2008-03-05, 01:42 PM
There was a guest on NPR yesterday who had a new book out about how Shamu taught her all this stuff, but it was essentially how it's easier to train animals (including people) by rewarding good behavior, rather than punishing bad behavior. So maybe the answer is to reward those with high ratios. A porn BT site I use has a system set up where not only your ratio, but the amount you've uploaded gives you "forum perks" which allow you to do such things as have an avatar or post in certain forums. Oddly, my ratio there is even better than it is here, but I haven't originated anything...

U2Lynne
2008-03-06, 04:02 PM
:whip:

On Topic boys!!!!!

U2Lynne
2008-03-06, 07:18 PM
OK, all off topic posts from this thread are being moved to The Lounge. That goes for any future ones too. And future threads.

:whip:

Jetrell69
2008-04-14, 12:46 PM
Bump

paddington
2008-04-14, 01:02 PM
^^^ cheeky monkey :lol:

I'm really surprised that so many people are for banning anyone with ratios under 0.50. That seems really extreme to me and, I think, wuold be pretty detremental to any torrent site.

Sure, they deserve to get some flack for it just to be sure they're making an effort, but ridicule is a bit far, imho, and banning outright just for ratio is silly.

Jetrell69
2008-04-23, 12:49 AM
Well, maybe putting a hold on their downloading habits until they get to like 0.8.....at least they'd have to work to get it back up their before wasting other peoples time, good efforts, and hard work.

:)

dasanitoyomi
2008-04-27, 05:28 AM
Well since joining a few days ago, I've caught unholy hell from the uppity bastards in the lounge. I understand it to a point, but I think most of it is just people thinking they're just having a laugh or something. *shrugs*

I managed to upload 3 gigs yesterday while being firewalled, and will be uploading while sleeping (which I should be doing now) and all day Sunday so....hopefully I get closer to a 1:1 ratio by Monday.

I'm kinda glad there is no ratio enforcement (aside from the assholes) so that gives me time to try to figure out the port forward thing, as I'm not really familiar with torrents.

U2Lynne
2008-04-27, 10:40 AM
I managed to upload 3 gigs yesterday while being firewalled, and will be uploading while sleeping (which I should be doing now) and all day Sunday so....hopefully I get closer to a 1:1 ratio by Monday.
If you need any help with that firewall, please feel free to post in Technobabble. We've helped many people get rid of that FIREWALLED sign.

Dead_Head_Josh
2008-04-27, 11:49 AM
I try to make covers and things like that....Comcast has been real strict with my usage. So how do I get around that...I try to leave stuff on all of the time and upload but only a few ever do. It won't let people leech off of me so how do I fix this. THis is why I make covers I know the ratio thing is a big deal. So how do i fix the seeding thing

U2Lynne
2008-04-27, 12:21 PM
I try to make covers and things like that....Comcast has been real strict with my usage. So how do I get around that...I try to leave stuff on all of the time and upload but only a few ever do. It won't let people leech off of me so how do I fix this. THis is why I make covers I know the ratio thing is a big deal. So how do i fix the seeding thing
I am one of those that just asks that you contribute in some way - whichever way you can. I don't care. I encourage people to make covers, start vines, do b&ps, just share the show somehow. You will get comments regarding your ratio, but you know that you try, so just ignore the comments.

jpc3
2008-04-27, 01:23 PM
Having just joined this happy band, I've been trying to catch up on history. I think that anyone participating in the wealth of music here should share any way they are able. But as has been noted throughout this thread, the more complex the methodology, the more complex the code, the greater the mips and bandwidth - not to mention the time spent monitoring and administering.

Other than someone behind the curtain knocking a true leech off periodically, perhaps an annoying lengthy reminder to wade through each time a low ratio member logs in.

I have to remember to pace myself in seeding new shows, as I have many from years of kindness from all those who ran ftp sites, recording engineers, broadcasters, etc.

But if there is anything I can do to get Lynne to bring the whip out again...

redrobin62
2008-04-27, 01:48 PM
I don't know what "ul'ing" means or torrent ratios or even how to upload a torrent. What I do know how to do is remaster these tapes using Sound Forge 9 and the various noise reduction & eq'ing tools in it. I've removed the clicks & pops from the Robert Johnson collection, the hiss from Zeppelin, Heart, and Peter Gabriel bootlegs. I'd like to repost these remastered collections. Wouldn't doing that here in Trader's Den alongside the originals cause some sort of confusion? I imagine it would. I don't like to think of myself as being a thoughtless leecher. As a gift to anyone I'll gladly remaster any concert tape in their collection, as best as I can, for free.

U2Lynne
2008-04-27, 01:56 PM
I don't know what "ul'ing" means or torrent ratios or even how to upload a torrent. What I do know how to do is remaster these tapes using Sound Forge 9 and the various noise reduction & eq'ing tools in it. I've removed the clicks & pops from the Robert Johnson collection, the hiss from Zeppelin, Heart, and Peter Gabriel bootlegs. I'd like to repost these remastered collections. Wouldn't doing that here in Trader's Den alongside the originals cause some sort of confusion? I imagine it would. I don't like to think of myself as being a thoughtless leecher. As a gift to anyone I'll gladly remaster any concert tape in their collection, as best as I can, for free.
Remastering is allowed here. However, we ask that you include information about exactly what you did to remaster the show in your notes. The show should be clearly labeled as a Remaster also (put it in the thread title). Some people like to have the raw source and play with it themselves, but others like that someone else took the time to remove hiss and pops so they don't need to do it themselves. As a courtesty, it is nice to ask the original taper if they mind that you did the remaster. Some tapers are perfectly fine with it as long as the show is clearly labeled, but you will find that some tapers prefer to only have the raw source circulated. I would suggest you yield to the tapers wishes on this since it does no good to piss them off.



Oh, and for jpc3.... :whip:

jpc3
2008-04-28, 08:39 AM
Be still my heart. I'll leave every torrent open forever.

Jetrell69
2008-04-28, 02:56 PM
Well since joining a few days ago, I've caught unholy hell from the uppity bastards in the lounge. I understand it to a point, but I think most of it is just people thinking they're just having a laugh or something. *shrugs*

I managed to upload 3 gigs yesterday while being firewalled, and will be uploading while sleeping (which I should be doing now) and all day Sunday so....hopefully I get closer to a 1:1 ratio by Monday.

I'm kinda glad there is no ratio enforcement (aside from the assholes) so that gives me time to try to figure out the port forward thing, as I'm not really familiar with torrents.

Familiarizing yourself with torrents "before" uploading is a better idea than just jumping in the water without testing the temperature.

Just my opinion....which is only worth what I might perceive it to be.

lol

:)

dasanitoyomi
2008-04-28, 03:14 PM
Well let me clarify. lol

I've used Torrents for awhile, but I never had to actually configure it with a router. The few sites I've used, it just worked. I was never firewalled, except on a boxing torrents site, and there I couldn't figure out what was going on, because everyone on the forum were dicks and wouldn't explain shit to people who were having problems.

So now that I've gotten it going, I'm having an easier time uploading.

Jesus Christ
2008-04-28, 06:17 PM
recently i have very seriously considered the notion that members with bad ratios should be forbidden from posting comments.

i think the site should automatically block comments from members until their ratio is 1.0.

i see people with appalling ratios whining, criticising, even attacking. i see the same morons doing it again and again.

it should be possible to link the member's ability to post comments to their ratio. i think this would be a good thing.

these assholes that download but never share back have no right to verbally assault people who take sharing seriously.

that's as far as a ban should go. when i discovered (quite by accident) SharingTheGroove.org, well, i can tell you, i downloaded a hell of a lot of shows that i had never been able to trade, and, in fact, a great many shows that i didn't even know existed. obviously, that gave me a trashy ratio to start. but i had the ethic in place, intrinsically, naturally, that i should seed the stuff back. it was no big deal, although it seemed a mountain to climb, building 0.05 up to 1:1.... but it actually was an easy thing in the end. but if i'd been banned, i couldn't have done it.

the one thing i knew when my ratio was trash was that i shouldn't attack people that had been sharing on the site for longer than i had, or to better effect. i don't think that high (good) ratios need necessarily create a hierachy, or some kind of 'Club Class'... but i do think that low (bad) ratio users should keep their thoughts to themselves until they have earned the right to criticise.

mooncusser
2008-04-28, 06:56 PM
Don't think it's possible at the tracker level to limit download speed, but how about capping the number of simultaneous downloads for new/low ratio members?
Would also help to save some people from themselves when they're new to the candy store.

dasanitoyomi
2008-04-28, 07:08 PM
recently i have very seriously considered the notion that members with bad ratios should be forbidden from posting comments.

i think the site should automatically block comments from members until their ratio is 1.0.

i see people with appalling ratios whining, criticising, even attacking. i see the same morons doing it again and again.

it should be possible to link the member's ability to post comments to their ratio. i think this would be a good thing.

these assholes that download but never share back have no right to verbally assault people who take sharing seriously.

that's as far as a ban should go. when i discovered (quite by accident) SharingTheGroove.org, well, i can tell you, i downloaded a hell of a lot of shows that i had never been able to trade, and, in fact, a great many shows that i didn't even know existed. obviously, that gave me a trashy ratio to start. but i had the ethic in place, intrinsically, naturally, that i should seed the stuff back. it was no big deal, although it seemed a mountain to climb, building 0.05 up to 1:1.... but it actually was an easy thing in the end. but if i'd been banned, i couldn't have done it.

the one thing i knew when my ratio was trash was that i shouldn't attack people that had been sharing on the site for longer than i had, or to better effect. i don't think that high (good) ratios need necessarily create a hierachy, or some kind of 'Club Class'... but i do think that low (bad) ratio users should keep their thoughts to themselves until they have earned the right to criticise.

But that's under the assumption that 100% of the people who have bad ratios are doing it because they're just trying to snatch and run, and have no intentions of seeding back.

I understand the idea behind what you're suggesting, and far be it from me to question Jesus Christ, but I think that's going to do more harm than good.

True, if you're only here to steal bandwidth by raping the torrents and not giving anything back, yes, you really shouldn't say anything to others that DO.

However, not everyone that has a bad ratio is the result of raping torrents.

And as for the attacks and all, just from my week (or less) of being here, I've noticed that everyone seems to attack everyone, so you could say they're just fitting in. Everyone is rude to everyone, so it's not like the leecher is standing out.:lol4:

U2Lynne
2008-04-28, 08:05 PM
And as for the attacks and all, just from my week (or less) of being here, I've noticed that everyone seems to attack everyone, so you could say they're just fitting in. Everyone is rude to everyone, so it's not like the leecher is standing out.:lol4:
Actually, we do try to keep Lounge attitude/stuff in The Lounge. The Lounge is kinda our unmoderated forum. The other forums we do try to keep un-lounge-like.


Yeah Jesus, I do wish that those that don't share would just shut up with the rude comments in the torrents. However, it isn't always just those that have low ratios that make the rude comments. There is a difference between making a rude comment and giving constructive criticism and unfortunately, some people have not learned that distinction.

freezer
2008-04-28, 08:34 PM
.....Yeah Jesus, I do wish that those that don't share would just shut up with the rude comments in the torrents.



Don't you feel just a bit strange having to explain manners to the Son Of GOD?














:hmm:

Jetrell69
2008-04-28, 10:49 PM
lmmfao!!!!!

Nice one freezer....maybe now your ticket to the "pearly" gates is in the mail...heehee.



.....Yeah Jesus, I do wish that those that don't share would just shut up with the rude comments in the torrents.



Don't you feel just a bit strange having to explain manners to the Son Of GOD?














:hmm:

scratchie
2008-04-29, 12:22 AM
Yeah Jesus, I do wish that those that don't share would just shut up with the rude comments in the torrents. Speaking for myself, I see far more rude comments coming from the people with "good" ratios. It's like a contest around here to see who can be the first to insult and denigrate anyone who dares to post a marginally-critical comment without a perfect ratio (preferably 10.0 or higher).

dasanitoyomi
2008-04-29, 12:38 AM
Yeah Jesus, I do wish that those that don't share would just shut up with the rude comments in the torrents. Speaking for myself, I see far more rude comments coming from the people with "good" ratios. It's like a contest around here to see who can be the first to insult and denigrate anyone who dares to post a marginally-critical comment without a perfect ratio (preferably 10.0 or higher).

Winner, Winner Chicken Dinner!!!!!

That's the exact mentality that a lot of people have. That's why I'm mostly staying out of the Lounge and just look to help people in other threads in whatever ways I can. I'm too old to deal with stupidity.

freezer
2008-04-29, 12:46 AM
Speaking for myself, I see far more rude comments coming from the people with "good" ratios. It's like a contest around here to see who can be the first to insult and denigrate anyone who dares to post a marginally-critical comment without a perfect ratio (preferably 10.0 or higher).

Winner, Winner Chicken Dinner!!!!!

That's the exact mentality that a lot of people have. That's why I'm mostly staying out of the Lounge and just look to help people in other threads in whatever ways I can. I'm too old to deal with stupidity.

You figured it out, congratulations, Napoleon. You might make it yet. :thumbsup

dasanitoyomi
2008-04-29, 12:53 AM
Yeah...I'm a slow learner sometimes. :lol4:

Dana Gillespie
2008-04-29, 01:37 AM
Yeah Jesus, I do wish that those that don't share would just shut up with the rude comments in the torrents. However, it isn't always just those that have low ratios that make the rude comments. There is a difference between making a rude comment and giving constructive criticism and unfortunately, some people have not learned that distinction.i think a rude comment from a high ratio user has at least a little more substance than a rude comment from someone who never shares.

dasanitoyomi
2008-04-29, 02:03 AM
No it doesn't in my opinion.

Someone being rude to you, has nothing to do with ratio. And everything to do with being an asshole.

If you got two situations. 1. A person with a high ratio tells you to go fuck yourself because you asked a question and 2. A person with a low ratio tells you to go fuck yourself because you asked a question, how is one better or worse than the other?

They're both rude inconsiderate pricks.

I try to be polite and considerate to everyone I come in contact with, but there are some who only live to act like an internet thug.

That has nothing to do with ratio. Everything to do with their own personality.

AAR.oner
2008-04-29, 06:00 AM
.....Yeah Jesus, I do wish that those that don't share would just shut up with the rude comments in the torrents.



Don't you feel just a bit strange having to explain manners to the Son Of GOD?




:hmm:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!! holy shit freezer, i nearly choked on this coffee reading that :clap:

scratchie
2008-04-29, 09:34 AM
i think a rude comment from a high ratio user has at least a little more substance than a rude comment from someone who never shares.That's total bullshit. You have absolutely no idea how much someone who "never shares" might have shared outside of TTD torrents. Maybe his ratio is in the tank because he has a slow connection, and he downloaded a year-old 3-DVD set of his best friend's first show that had no other downloaders on it, but then he turned around and burned five copies of that show (15 DVDs) for friends in "real life".

Maybe he's been a tape trader for 20 years who's done B&P's, tape trees, CD vines and every other form of sharing before he ever heard of "TTD". Proclaiming that a person "never shares" simply based on their current ratio at one bittorrent site is a near-perfect blend of ignorance and arrogance.

jpc3
2008-04-29, 10:29 AM
A curious thought, Scratchie, but how do you measure the soul of someone (Jesus Christ excluded) with a tracker?

scratchie
2008-04-29, 12:39 PM
A curious thought, Scratchie, but how do you measure the soul of someone (Jesus Christ excluded) with a tracker?Um, er, ah... What??:hmm:

I try not to. That was sort of the point.

Jetrell69
2008-04-29, 12:44 PM
ALL of us are capable of good & bad at any time during our existence on ANY tracker...or in life for that matter. I see alot of poor ratios who are hit n runners....no seeding afterwards, no comments or thanks, no posting.....if they still trade what they get outside of here are they still okay...in my book they're a burden to the site. Chances are they may even be selling the shows they get on a home-made website or sleezeBay. Either way like arseholes, we ALL have opinions...if we learn how to better moderate ourselves and our emotions when posting we could be saints...but at this point, we're only human.....regardless of whether we be arseholes too from time to time......

;)

scratchie
2008-04-29, 02:36 PM
ALL of us are capable of good & bad at any time during our existence on ANY tracker...or in life for that matter. I see alot of poor ratios who are hit n runners....no seeding afterwards, no comments or thanks, no posting.....if they still trade what they get outside of here are they still okay...in my book they're a burden to the site. They're not a burden on the site, as evidenced by the fact that the site is thriving and is filled with great content and (mostly) generous file-sharers. I've seen no evidence that the site's performance is suffering due to any preponderance of hit-and-runners.

The whole purpose of the site is to share music. Some people share more than others, and some are able to share more than others, but as long as the music is being shared, I don't see what the problem is. For as long as I've been a collector of live music, I've been more than willing to spin a copy of any show in my collection for anyone who asked (and lots of people who didn't even ask).

I never required them to make additional copies for anyone else and I certainly never insulted them and called them a "fucking worthless leech" (or any of the other charming epithets that regularly show up on these forums) because I gave more music to them than they gave to me.

Chances are they may even be selling the shows they get on a home-made website or sleezeBay. Give me a break. They probably just have lives, and/or other uses for their computers and internet connections besides seeding torrents 24/7.

Jesus Christ
2008-04-29, 05:04 PM
They're not a burden on the site....okay, thanks for that, Scratchie. good reading. nice one.

okay, so that pretty much decides it.

obviously we do not ban the uber-leechers.

nice discussion while it lasted, but with it cast now upon the back-burner, we should raise a toast to a new future in the same old place that we love. :vino:

LeifH12345
2008-04-30, 01:39 AM
http://i25.tinypic.com/95n31u.jpg:lol:

paddington
2008-04-30, 01:47 AM
how odd

Don Corleone
2008-04-30, 02:57 AM
well, ill tell you one thing that really sucks! I have Comcast, and its a nightmare.. but changing companies where i am located is not an option. I can download things at up to 500-600kbs an i have seen it go faster than that if the pool is huge.... but on uploading, i can only move things out at 50kbs and no more. i noticed this when i brought my laptop to other friends houses that live in the city and found i could upload at other locations as fast as 220kbps. ALSO.. it seems that after so many MBs of uploading somewhere around 600MB, the connection drops and the modem has to be reset. This is especially frustrating at night because if the connection is cut and i dont find out until morning, then i lose the whole night of uploading. i have many things downloaded here from TTD that i keep on my disc and check for leechers regularly. (I think the Baltimore Jack 72/73 Zeppelin is at 16.47GB uploaded, so things like that keep my ratio rising. Its hard because when you first join a site, youre getting everything usually LONG after everyone else has already picked it up, so it can be tricky to get a ratio high if you get carried away in the beginning. Recently i seeded a show on Dime and in the same time it took me to upload the entire 700MB show, i watched the stats on 8 people leeching it and they had completed 5GB in uploads on the same file before they had even finished downloading it from me.. Go Figure! Seeding an original torrent especially here can also be rough because the requirements for alot of things i have do not fall favorable unless they are from actual silvers or clean lineage.... and almost all the cleanest stuff i have has come from here anyways, so everyone has everything .. haha. the best i can do is keep things around a long time if they are popular and let them do their thing over time. I am however in favor of the 50% or 75% ratio check every 100GB because that should at least keep people honest and show an attempt in effort! If you're a pure leach then thats lame, because there is no reason why you have to delete something from your HD as soon as it is completed. I guess my point here is i can see where for some (like me) having a super high ratio is not a possibility because of my connection speed here at home, but a lack of effort cannot go unnoticed i would think!

AAR.oner
2008-04-30, 06:35 AM
people always complain that they just don't have fast enough pipes to keep a good ratio... yet most of the time they've d/l'd hundreds of GBs, and when they post their u/l speeds its far better than ours

our maximum upload is around 35k/s, yet i have no problem keeping a decent ratio

so unless yer on dialup, there is no excuse!!!

direwolf-pgh
2008-04-30, 08:26 AM
http://i25.tinypic.com/95n31u.jpg:lol:ahhh, I get it. you were put in the iggy box for thoughtless posting. Im sure it was for your own good.
Thoughtless posting is worse than thoughtless leeching imo.

paddington
2008-04-30, 03:47 PM
how odd

lemonade
2008-07-04, 08:11 PM
I'm new here and I really like this site. I just found this thread and I really want to comment, because there is always a point about ratios that seems to be missed, although scratchie alluded to it. Why should someone with a poor ration automatically be thought of as someone who does not share or someone who is thoughtless? That person may be seeding their brains out, but not getting any uploads.

I've been a member of another site for a while, and I have always been listed in the stats as one of the top seeders, yet it took quite a while for me to get a decent ratio. And if you think it's because I downloaded too much, you're wrong. Plus, another problem is that unless you download and have enough seeds, then your ratio goes into the sinker even more, so it's a lose/lose situation.

This attitude that poor ratios somehow equal someone who is thoughtless and does not share is plain wrong, because some people with bad ratios really care about sharing and they seed constantly. I have come to realize that I can only hope and pray for leechers to my seeds, and it's a miserable process, because it so hard to get enough uploads, depending on what you've downloaded. I'd much rather upload than download, so don't judge unfairly. I only have one download on this site so far, and it's looking like it's going to take an eternity for me to have a good ratio here, even though I have been seeding continuously since I downloaded.

It's unfortunate we can't be measured by the amount of time we spend seeding, and not ratios, because unless the files are being uploaded, a person with a poor ration may be stigmatized very unfairly. My computer has taken a horrible beating since I started doing torrents, because it's running almost constantly in order to seed and attempt to upload. The internal fans are starting to roar, and it now needs maintenance because of the toll this has taken on it. I'm expecting that it will be trashed soon. Yet, I would still get called a thoughtless leecher with a poor ratio! :mad: It's enough to make me stop doing torrents, and I'm sure it will eventually come to that.

Anyway, hello everyone, and I'm happy to be a part of this community. :wave:

paddington
2008-07-05, 02:39 AM
pay no attention to the man behind the duck.. he's appreciated, but not happy unless he's bitching - so while it may seem odd, posting those two threads has been very therapeutic for him, so all is well.


Welcome to the Den. We're dysfunctional, but we have all the cool tunes. :thumbsup

vladsmythe
2008-07-05, 08:39 PM
I'm new here and I really like this site. I just found this thread and I really want to comment, because there is always a point about ratios that seems to be missed, although scratchie alluded to it. Why should someone with a poor ration automatically be thought of as someone who does not share or someone who is thoughtless? That person may be seeding their brains out, but not getting any uploads.

I've been a member of another site for a while, and I have always been listed in the stats as one of the top seeders, yet it took quite a while for me to get a decent ratio. And if you think it's because I downloaded too much, you're wrong. Plus, another problem is that unless you download and have enough seeds, then your ratio goes into the sinker even more, so it's a lose/lose situation.

This attitude that poor ratios somehow equal someone who is thoughtless and does not share is plain wrong, because some people with bad ratios really care about sharing and they seed constantly. I have come to realize that I can only hope and pray for leechers to my seeds, and it's a miserable process, because it so hard to get enough uploads, depending on what you've downloaded. I'd much rather upload than download, so don't judge unfairly. I only have one download on this site so far, and it's looking like it's going to take an eternity for me to have a good ratio here, even though I have been seeding continuously since I downloaded.

It's unfortunate we can't be measured by the amount of time we spend seeding, and not ratios, because unless the files are being uploaded, a person with a poor ration may be stigmatized very unfairly. My computer has taken a horrible beating since I started doing torrents, because it's running almost constantly in order to seed and attempt to upload. The internal fans are starting to roar, and it now needs maintenance because of the toll this has taken on it. I'm expecting that it will be trashed soon. Yet, I would still get called a thoughtless leecher with a poor ratio! :mad: It's enough to make me stop doing torrents, and I'm sure it will eventually come to that.

Anyway, hello everyone, and I'm happy to be a part of this community. :wave:
Welcome to the "community"! I think you are off to a fantastic start.:)

Black Dog
2008-07-05, 10:01 PM
.................Welcome to the Den. We're dysfunctional, but we have all the cool tunes. :thumbsup

:lol4: :thumbsup

BaconAerosmith
2008-07-12, 02:37 AM
I really want to share heaps more again here I really love this site I have 20 to 30 new DVDs but I seriously get upset when I see someone selling them on YAHOO JAPAN AUCTIONS and I know it is some leecher from here. :wtf::disbelief

zzz
2008-07-12, 05:32 AM
Here's a view from a newbie: I've just got broadband (about a month ago), so I'm going on a feeding frenzy before I get the 'fair usage' letter! Also, with the demise of decent record fairs any more here in the U.K., it's the classic kid in a toy shop scenario. While I've been dling like mad, I'm aware of ratio, and do my best to ul, too. The things that slow this down are:- 1. I can only ul at a fraction of my dl speed (it is, after all, [B][U]A[B][U]dsl), and, 2. just when I'm getting good karma, I browse through the torrents, and see something else I fancy. 3. As a member of MWP, I put my first torrent up on there, and then left a message here pointing folks at that. As a newbie, and someone who grew up in the days when the White House had a computer, I havn't learned enough, yet, to do something clever like put it up here, too, and improve both my ratios at once! The thing I have found, like in real life when someone stops for a chat just because of the T-shirt you're wearing, is that most people here are friendly, and have more common sense in one finger than the whole of the Euro MP building. This weekend I will be leaving the pc seeding, while I'm in work, trying to get that magic ratio up. (Another thing, old seeds, where there's no other leechers, what if you want lots of those? Do you offset by seeding someone popular like the stones or pearl jam?) Anyway, there's a view, thanks for your time, zzz.

vladsmythe
2008-07-12, 10:59 AM
I really want to share heaps more again here I really love this site I have 20 to 30 new DVDs but I seriously get upset when I see someone selling them on YAHOO JAPAN AUCTIONS and I know it is some leecher from here. :wtf::disbeliefHey Buddy, how are you these days. You may have missed my comment before on this issue (mods delete my comments). Jerks will sell this stuff. I suspect that as the global economy worsens, more good people will do not-so-good things to make a buck. That is the reality. Take comfort that you share freely. My vids are sold by others. I can't control that. Just get over that hurdle and realize that once you put it up, anything can happen to it. When someone creates artwork for a show, I feel that it's just a greater invitation to get marketed. Fancy menus, covers - all great efforts are selling points at flea markets and online. I know it helped make money for Swingin' Pig and Yellow Dog etc.
Take care. Good to hear from you man.:)

U2Lynne
2008-07-12, 11:28 AM
I really want to share heaps more again here I really love this site I have 20 to 30 new DVDs but I seriously get upset when I see someone selling them on YAHOO JAPAN AUCTIONS and I know it is some leecher from here. :wtf::disbeliefHey Buddy, how are you these days. You may have missed my comment before on this issue (mods delete my comments). Jerks will sell this stuff. I suspect that as the global economy worsens, more good people will do not-so-good things to make a buck. That is the reality. Take comfort that you share freely. My vids are sold by others. I can't control that. Just get over that hurdle and realize that once you put it up, anything can happen to it. When someone creates artwork for a show, I feel that it's just a greater invitation to get marketed. Fancy menus, covers - all great efforts are selling points at flea markets and online. I know it helped make money for Swingin' Pig and Yellow Dog etc.
Take care. Good to hear from you man.:)
vlad is right - unfortunately we can't do anything about the sellers. What we *can* do is spread the word to people on how they can get these shows for free. Once we point them towards a site like this (or Dime, or TC, or any of the tons of others), we need to be willing to help them out. We should all remember what it was like to be a newbie to bittorrent and how 'scary' it was at first.... and how complicated it seemed to burn a show or DVD.... so now we give back and help them out so it's easy for them. If we make it easy and painless for them, then they go and spread the word too and other users start using torrents to download these great live shows.

So yeah, it is awful that there are people that try to ruin it for us by downloading and selling. But, try to take a look at the larger picture, as vlad pointed out, that you are sharing stuff with others that they wouldn't get otherwise.

(And vlad, your comments aren't deleted. If they are lounge-like comments, they are simply thrown into a thread in the lounge for lounge-like comments made in other forums.)

hallucinogenetick
2008-07-13, 02:19 PM
I'm new here and I really like this site. I just found this thread and I really want to comment, because there is always a point about ratios that seems to be missed, although scratchie alluded to it. Why should someone with a poor ration automatically be thought of as someone who does not share or someone who is thoughtless? That person may be seeding their brains out, but not getting any uploads.

I've been a member of another site for a while, and I have always been listed in the stats as one of the top seeders, yet it took quite a while for me to get a decent ratio. And if you think it's because I downloaded too much, you're wrong. Plus, another problem is that unless you download and have enough seeds, then your ratio goes into the sinker even more, so it's a lose/lose situation.

This attitude that poor ratios somehow equal someone who is thoughtless and does not share is plain wrong, because some people with bad ratios really care about sharing and they seed constantly. I have come to realize that I can only hope and pray for leechers to my seeds, and it's a miserable process, because it so hard to get enough uploads, depending on what you've downloaded. I'd much rather upload than download, so don't judge unfairly. I only have one download on this site so far, and it's looking like it's going to take an eternity for me to have a good ratio here, even though I have been seeding continuously since I downloaded.

It's unfortunate we can't be measured by the amount of time we spend seeding, and not ratios, because unless the files are being uploaded, a person with a poor ration may be stigmatized very unfairly. My computer has taken a horrible beating since I started doing torrents, because it's running almost constantly in order to seed and attempt to upload. The internal fans are starting to roar, and it now needs maintenance because of the toll this has taken on it. I'm expecting that it will be trashed soon. Yet, I would still get called a thoughtless leecher with a poor ratio! :mad: It's enough to make me stop doing torrents, and I'm sure it will eventually come to that.

Anyway, hello everyone, and I'm happy to be a part of this community. :wave:

My thoughts exactly. Sometimes people just can't get good upload speeds. However, there's no way to discriminate between these people and leechers, so some form of action should be taken. Something like a warning to anyone with a ratio below .25, followed by a ban if this is not remedied within a few weeks or so. Eh I don't know.

I'm new to this whole music sharing deal; got into it after talking to a taper at Langerado. I will admit that until recently, I have been pretty ignorant in my leeching, with my share ratio dropping to .24, I believe. I've been seeding several DVD's constantly for the last three days or so, and I've managed to increase it to .44, much to the dismay of my laptop.

1.0 or bust!

-A repentant leecher

sleepless
2008-07-14, 02:02 AM
The voice of another Noob...

I posted on a thread soon after I joined...i got some flack because my ratio was low...I felt that I had to improve my ratio before I could berate other people in The Lounge...

After many calls to my ISP (DSL,) complaining about the slow speeds, I decided to switch...I got cable and my ratio has moved to 1:1...

So, do I now get the honor of contributing obnoxious behavior with the other Post Whores?

U2Lynne
2008-07-14, 11:30 AM
So, do I now get the honor of contributing obnoxious behavior with the other Post Whores?
Go for it! But I suggest protective gear for your first few posts in The Lounge. Oh, and whatever you do, don't take them seriously!!

Alex231
2008-07-14, 03:02 PM
:lol:

BaconAerosmith
2008-07-15, 12:35 AM
Hey Buddy, how are you these days. You may have missed my comment before on this issue (mods delete my comments). Jerks will sell this stuff. I suspect that as the global economy worsens, more good people will do not-so-good things to make a buck. That is the reality. Take comfort that you share freely. My vids are sold by others. I can't control that. Just get over that hurdle and realize that once you put it up, anything can happen to it. When someone creates artwork for a show, I feel that it's just a greater invitation to get marketed. Fancy menus, covers - all great efforts are selling points at flea markets and online. I know it helped make money for Swingin' Pig and Yellow Dog etc.
Take care. Good to hear from you man.:)

I agree with this too like everywhere else the economy here in Japan is rapidly going down the drain, but I might be back on day, Thanks Vlad Regards to Your Family. Hello to U2Lynne and to all the Mods here at TTD
Bacon :wave::wave:

BurntPage
2008-07-15, 04:38 AM
I could use some help. Im new to this site and have a few hundred shows I'd like to share. I have the downloading part down, and Ive downloaded the bt creator but Im not sure if I am doing it correctly, yes Im a knucklehead.

But where I need help is, what would be an appropriate amount of time to allott seeding. How long should I seed for after I have downloaded?

U2Lynne
2008-07-15, 11:22 AM
I could use some help. Im new to this site and have a few hundred shows I'd like to share. I have the downloading part down, and Ive downloaded the bt creator but Im not sure if I am doing it correctly, yes Im a knucklehead.

But where I need help is, what would be an appropriate amount of time to allott seeding. How long should I seed for after I have downloaded?
We really encourage users with questions to start their own threads cuz then all their questions can be contained in one place and you aren't searching in other threads to see if someone has answered your questions.

You might want to start by reading the FAQs (either for Audio or Video) and hopefully that answers a lot of questions. As for how long.... usually you want to seed until their are a few completes and then they can carry on the seeding of the show. I would also encourage you to keep it on your harddrive for a while incase seeding drops off in a few weeks and you want to help them out. That isn't necessary, but if you can, I think it's a good idea. Also, when you go to initially seed your show, you really should make that the only show you are seeding - don't try to seed more than that one show at that time. This is ensure that you have all your bandwidth going towards it and the users will get it that much faster and then they can carry on the seeding while you go off to download a show that you want.

paddington
2008-07-15, 02:22 PM
The voice of another Noob...

I posted on a thread soon after I joined...i got some flack because my ratio was low...I felt that I had to improve my ratio before I could berate other people in The Lounge...

After many calls to my ISP (DSL,) complaining about the slow speeds, I decided to switch...I got cable and my ratio has moved to 1:1...

So, do I now get the honor of contributing obnoxious behavior with the other Post Whores?

yes, absolutely

Jetrell69
2008-07-17, 08:06 AM
I could use some help. Im new to this site and have a few hundred shows I'd like to share. I have the downloading part down, and Ive downloaded the bt creator but Im not sure if I am doing it correctly, yes Im a knucklehead.

But where I need help is, what would be an appropriate amount of time to allott seeding. How long should I seed for after I have downloaded?

1:1 seeding is probably the optimal if you aren't uploading anything of your own....jumping off right after downloading something isn't really good manners but that is a decision only you can make.

:)

Hollie
2008-08-07, 01:28 PM
I have an extremely bad internet connection, I rarely get past 1Mb connection speed( Despite paying for 8) meaning it takes an absolute age for me to get a decent ratio ( I haven't actually completed a d/l from here yet but I'm going from past experiences). It would be more useful surely to suggest that once someone has d/l a certain amount they must have a certain ratio or they cannot download but instead they should upload until they reach the ratio , rather than blocking them entirely.
Though hoefully this shouldn't be a problem for me when my new ISP connects me :)

splumer
2008-08-14, 07:49 AM
I think this was discussed in another thread, but mathematically, the highest average ratio for all members would be 1:1.

dementrium
2008-08-14, 02:20 PM
I think this was discussed in another thread, but mathematically, the highest average ratio for all members would be 1:1.

Mathematically... wrong. :headbang2

The initial seeder breaks the 1:1 equation for the rest.

Alex231
2008-08-14, 04:18 PM
I think this was discussed in another thread, but mathematically, the highest average ratio for all members would be 1:1.

Mathematically... wrong. :headbang2

The initial seeder breaks the 1:1 equation for the rest.

You should just ZIP IT! on this matter, dementrium.



:disbelief :lol:

Pottel
2008-08-14, 05:20 PM
warn,...warn, then ban.
is the way i go at yeeshkul.
so not one, but two chances.
then normally a discussion and an explanation follows, and many times they just had no clue, or did not know how to easily build up ratio.
the real fuckers simply don't reply (and then get banned :-P)

hugofuguzev
2008-11-02, 02:33 PM
(as of 2 November)
Rank User Uploaded Downloaded Ratio
1 fleamt 16.00 KB 13.91 GB 0.00
2 terrapin_food 17.98 MB 62.06 GB 0.00
3 enivid 4.78 MB 12.66 GB 0.00
4 vegetable_man 18.78 MB 31.58 GB 0.00
5 homeair 11.93 MB 13.84 GB 0.00
6 unnas 66.88 MB 61.16 GB 0.00
7 theladder2k 31.53 MB 28.69 GB 0.00
8 filfil 31.06 MB 25.11 GB 0.00
9 icculus723 18.53 MB 14.69 GB 0.00

I must admit, when I see stats like some of these yahoos have, I voted for .25 or lower, which is the standard at a few other sites. I know TTD doesn't enforce ratios, etc, but sometimes maybe it's time it started. I mean, some of these guys have been here over two years, scarfing it down without even a fuckin' thank you, let alone sharing. I'd love to hear some of their undoubtedly lame-ass excuses...Just sayin':cool:

daddyray
2008-11-02, 02:44 PM
two warning and a ban as Pottel said....ratio of .67 is pretty easy to manage although rookie mistakes do take time to clean up. I had trouble when I started at the Dime grabbing giant stale shit but still...
I kinda like the shame business but maybe I am a nasty prick.
My ratio is weak at throwndown (fleetwood mac) but only because they are three people ever on the torrents. But i NEED that stuff...the blues band not the later sludge.

Wizardry007
2008-11-10, 03:56 PM
Normally I'd go with give them a few warnings but I'm seriously reconsidering now.
Okay so many people might not see it as an effort putting up a show but it is to me. So I'm seeding a show of my own today and see the 5th person completing just hit 100% and then close the client. I decide to check out his ratio and it shows:
Downloaded: 715.17 GB Uploaded: 55.61 GB Ratio: 0.08

Now maybe I'm just pissed that he didnt stick around to help seed my show, but with a ratio of 0.08 after 700+ GB downloaded it looks like that's his MO. People like that arent really helping the community and there should be restrictions to prevent people like that from leeching away...

So to sum it up... lets set a minimum ratio with a DL loft.... like after downloading 50GB you need to have a ratio of minimum 0.75...

// pissed of seeder....:mad:

vladsmythe
2008-11-11, 12:21 AM
I think .01 should be a cause for concern.:lol4:

AAR.oner
2008-11-11, 06:14 AM
i only hit & run on shows with seeders that have shitty ratios

Hollie
2008-11-11, 01:17 PM
thats a sensible idea, would help those who are trying to build up a ration though not so much in dealing with the ones that just piss off

vladsmythe
2008-11-11, 03:56 PM
thats a sensible idea, would help those who are trying to build up a ration though not so much in dealing with the ones that just piss off:wtf:

ijwthstd
2008-11-17, 04:39 PM
Someone wrote me asking me to reseed a Metallica show and I dug it out and put it back on my computer and started seeding and added this note

"Once you have this please keep it open a while, I have some stuff I want to put up in the morning so I will probably shut this down and delete it again."

When I woke up in the morning, the person who wrote me had grabbed it and stopped seeding never to return while others had jumped on.

I am all for enforceable share ratios.

dementrium
2008-12-05, 11:00 AM
For those people voting for the first option, I have some news for you.

you're taking a bold and lonely position on that poll...you got balls bro (good for you) I personally think it's a bit harsh, but I'm glad to know you don't give a damn what people think...that's the sign of a good person...hope we can actually make some changes round here...even if it's a small step, I'd like to see asses like that get kicked out :cool:

rspencer
2008-12-05, 12:17 PM
For those people voting for the first option, I have some news for you.

you're taking a bold and lonely position on that poll...you got balls bro (good for you) I personally think it's a bit harsh, but I'm glad to know you don't give a damn what people think...that's the sign of a good person...hope we can actually make some changes round here...even if it's a small step, I'd like to see asses like that get kicked out :cool:

You were one of them. :lol4:

And so was vlad :wtf:

vladsmythe
2008-12-05, 01:39 PM
"You were one of them.

And so was vlad"


I was. I'll cop to it. I was thinking that we could get rid of a lot of excellent members with a 1.0 ratio enforcement. That would go over well... and all that would remain is a few good folks who contribute content and a ton of weasels who contribute nothing but have a fast connection. Bottom line: I propose a ratio "Bailout" for people like me who share original content, but are hampered by slower dsl upload speed.

Ma98734
2008-12-05, 09:00 PM
I'm a big leecher, but nowhere near thoughtless, I'm aware I don't seed but it's due to internet speed, firewalling (which I can't remove) and many more reasons. However I'm glad that people put up their shows here and let me download even if I don't share. You're a great community and people like me that can only download are glad that a lot of people here allow us to stay.

Thanks to all!!, and let the Karma be a driving force.
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

chinajoe
2008-12-06, 02:19 AM
i try to seed what i down for a little while. but my connection isnt the fastest.
therefore i up some masters from time to time, putting new stuff in the pool as others have done for me.

ibb420
2008-12-07, 12:13 PM
This is just my second post even though I have been a member since '05. Since the mod have stated that no one will be banned for a low ratio solely, why has the question been changed to: under what conditions does a person's low ratio come into consideration for banning. This is the plan that I have come up with that I think covers most the bases.

First off the new member deficit/stale torrent dls:
Give all new members a trial period of 40 GB to catch up and learn how to torrent properly. This is the equivalent of 10 dvd or 40 audio shows. During this period have automatically generated emails/pm's with tips such as firewall/ port forwarding and other help links. At the end of this period zero both up and download stats. They are now full members. This gives them nothing new but the responsibility of sharing.

The second issue that I see is the vine/b&p:
This is easily fixed with a bot or a volunteer. Once a vine is closed give credit to all but the last person in the vine equal to the MB of the show. There is a time lag from the dl to the close of the vine triggering a tally and credit received. Such Is the nature of non digital trading. This is work unless a bot can be easily programed at a decent price, but is very doable.

This is just a thought process by no means a complete system and I know that other bugs and problems will arise. Under these conditions I see no reason that a person not wanting to be solely a leach would have a problem keeping above a .25 ratio. If they slip below this an email/pm before banning would be considerate.

My .02
Eric

marksg
2008-12-07, 03:56 PM
"You were one of them. And so was vlad"

I was. I'll cop to it. I was thinking that we could get rid of a lot of excellent members with a 1.0 ratio enforcement. That would go over well... and all that would remain is a few good folks who contribute content and a ton of weasels who contribute nothing but have a fast connection. Bottom line: I propose a ratio "Bailout" for people like me who share original content, but are hampered by slower dsl upload speed.
I 2nd your thoughts. I'm not proud of my ratio, but I am not thoughtless. I never jump off a torrent that is desperate for seeders, I may stay connected for days, a week even and barely hit .40. This is why I regift stuff I get elsewhere in an attempt to do my share. So while it may look like I'm "jumping off" a torrent prematurely, it's likely due to the fact that I need the kb's for the show I'm seeding. I do intend to upgrade my DSL service since it has recently become possible to do so, but at the quantity of my usage, my ratio isn't going to move too easily. I agree with vlad, that a professional leecher with a high speed connection allowing a good ratio isn't a better member than I am, his contribution comes in a different way. This site has been "home" to me for a long time, and setting some high ratio requirement is not going to improve this site. If a ratio requirement has to be implemented I think Vlad's "bailout" should extend to all forms of uploading. Sharing new content has to be worth more than simply having a fast upload speed. Perhaps a .25 enforcement ratio with a credit system for uploaders of new material, such as 10gigs of upload credit per each gig of new material uploaded EX: upload a 4gig dvd and receive 40 gigs of upload credit. This would not only encourage somewhat fair sharing , but some more members to share new and unique things to TTD. Now THAT would improve the site, getting more uploaders and more content

marksg
2008-12-07, 04:06 PM
I had a 2nd thought on this topic as well. Hungercity has a "karma" system they use, I thought I would copy and post my Karma page from there to give you an idea of how that works:
Welcome back, marksg [logout]
Ratio: 0.527 Uploaded: 55.23 GB Downloaded: 104.85 GB Active Torrents: d/l -0 u/l -1 The time is now: 21:54
1 (0 New) 0

CONGRATULATIONS TO [ mtownshend ] & [ theembryo ] FOR BEING PROMOTED TO THEIR RESPECTIVE POSITIONSSeeder Bonus Exchange
Here you can exchange your karma points (you have 1624 karma points at the moment).

Option Details? Costs Exchange
1 +1.0GB upload credit =100 Pts

2 +2.5GB upload credit=200 Pts

3 +6GB upload credit+400 Pts

4 +1 invite= 1000Pts

How do I get these karma points?
1 bonus point per hour (if you seeding above 10KB/s)
[so right now I could exchange 1600 of my 1624 karma points for 24 Gigs credit. That would take me from a .53 ratio to almost .80] Oh BTW, the show I'm upping there will be one of my next shares here

vladsmythe
2008-12-07, 05:45 PM
Very intelligent comment in a very dumb thread marksg. New content carries no weight here. I, as well as others have brought it up before, only to have that notion shot down. One would like to think that fresh content was an important factor in the quality of this site. Look at all the tired torrents in the video section that are inflating members ratios. People just bump old shit to the top, or grab it at dime and recycle it...I would seed much more here if it resulted in some sort of upload credit, as I am capped at 50 kb/s up.

U2Lynne
2008-12-07, 06:16 PM
Very intelligent comment in a very dumb thread marksg. New content carries no weight here.
I don't know why you would say that, vlad. New content simply doesn't gain you any sort of ratio credit. We happen to keep it all separate here - your ratio reflects your bittorrent activity and the TTD Trader 'badge' reflects whether you upload torrents/vines/b&ps. Anyone can click on your profile and then your list of shows and see the 84 shows you have seeded (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/threadlist.php?tt=torrents&u=14042). I think it's kinda 'false' to roll any credit you 'buy' into your actual ratio. If we did decide to give some sort of ratio credit for these things, it would be stated in the ratio that xxx amount of it was earned some other way than through torrenting - just like they do it over at STMusic. So instead of your ratio showing as:
Downloaded: 1.54 TB Uploaded: 394.93 GB Ratio: 0.25
It would say something like:
Downloaded: 1.54 TB Uploaded: 394.93 GB Gifted: 100 GB Ratio: 0.32

So, it would be clearly stated that you were 'given' the ratio credit and it wasn't earned through torrenting. I don't know that that would make any sort of difference to people now as having the TTD Trader badge does.

I firmly believe that the actually torrenting stats should stay separate from any sort of 'credit' you get because torrenting stats should be torrenting stats.

However, I'm not suggesting that I'm implementing the Gifted part of this discussion, I'm simply spelling out how it would show if we were to do so.

As for it being a dumb thread, I won't post my feelings on that. However, just because you don't like the thread, do you think I should just delete it?

vladsmythe
2008-12-07, 06:25 PM
I think mean, or mean spirited , negative, is dumb. I am constantly attacked by people here (many who seed zilch) for my ratio. It seems to be important to a lot of folks who contribute nothing to demean the very people who enrich the content well here at TTD.

possessed
2008-12-07, 06:32 PM
as I am capped at 50 kb/s up.

I'm capped at less than that and yet my ratio is fine. Go ahead and explain this one. We're dying to read your rationalization.

skip
2008-12-07, 06:39 PM
Look at all these inveterate leechers trying to rationalize their stealing from the community :lol4:

vlad doesn't count though, he contributes lulz.


Just a couple thoughts for the bad ratio types -- how many torrents have you killed by not seeding? How do you justify that? Have you ever downloaded a show that had just 1 or 2 seeders? Be glad those people don't act like you.

vladsmythe
2008-12-07, 06:44 PM
I'm capped at less than that and yet my ratio is fine. Go ahead and explain this one. We're dying to read your rationalization.I have no desire to reach some arbitrary ratio that suits people that I care nothing about. Like you and the people you refer to as "We". If you and others are "dying to read my rationalization" you need to get a life. People are starving, human rights are being violated, the industrialized world economy is spinning out of control..."mild interest" in my rationalization would be sufficient. My rationalization: .25 seems okay for me, considering the amount of original content I contribute. If all I did was dwell on my ratio here, I'm sure I could raise it to a level that would meet your approval. :wave:

possessed
2008-12-07, 06:52 PM
First you say you are capped, now you talk about starving people? :wtf: Then how can you upload when such atrocities are occurring?

Uploading new content requires you to tape a show, edit it, make the necessary fingerprints, folders, text and torrent files and then bring it all here. But downloading and maintaining your ratio requires you download a file, drop it in a client and wait. Pretty fucking simple.

And you try to rationalize your thievery of others hard work on starving people. You are a shameful person Vlad.

Just because you share a few toys with us doesn't mean you can run around and take everything out of all the other toyboxes.

:disbelief

trustthex
2008-12-07, 07:06 PM
mmmm... hi fellow lounge members! :wave:

re: the comment about cash on hungercity... does that mean ratio is kept where enforced, but not where not... weak imho.

possessed
2008-12-07, 07:06 PM
then I try to find the time to upload. Been busy though lately...56 episodes of The Johnny Cash show at Hunger City has kept me in download mode for 2 weeks straight.:lol4:

In other words you feel it's OK to search and download whatever you want( got plenty of time for that!), but can't "find the time" to leave your client open to give back. Funny how other tapers I've seen have ratios of 2, 5, 56 and higher. You might wanna ask them how they "find time."

Your excuses are legendary. Keep em coming. They make many of us laugh pretty damn hard at their absurdity.

mooncusser
2008-12-07, 07:21 PM
I have no desire to reach some arbitrary ratio

since when is giving back as much as you take (a ratio of 1) considered arbitrary? :hmm::hmm: I thought it was considered good manners.

let it be known that vlad would pay for his booze with the contents of the "need a penny" tray - if he thought he could get away with it.

U2Lynne
2008-12-07, 08:11 PM
My rationalization: .25 seems okay for me, considering the amount of original content I contribute.
OK, then stop worrying about what some people say about it. The only reason it gets brought up by a few people is because it gets such a reaction out of you. If you didn't react to them, they wouldn't bring it up with you.


And take the Lounge comments back to The Lounge guys! :whip:

marksg
2008-12-07, 09:46 PM
Very intelligent comment in a very dumb thread marksg. New content carries no weight here. I, as well as others have brought it up before, only to have that notion shot down. One would like to think that fresh content was an important factor in the quality of this site. Look at all the tired torrents in the video section that are inflating members ratios. People just bump old shit to the top, or grab it at dime and recycle it...I would seed much more here if it resulted in some sort of upload credit, as I am capped at 50 kb/s up.

Thanks for support of my comments, the only point I would make is that I myself am guilty of "recycling" as you call it, stuff from Dime etc...I find that a worthwhile endeavor as a lot of people can't obtain memberships [or don't try, whatever]. I'm not at your level, authoring fresh content. I just don't have the time and/or quality equip to do that. I refer to it as "regifting" but I still feel it's a step up from someone who sits on a torrent with 50 other seeders. Great the peers get to seed in a few hours instead of a day or 2. Is that more productive than bringing new content [whether the seeder has taped/authored it or merely carried it over from another site]? IMO it is not. All it does is favor the people with the fastest connections. Now I'm not talking about the person that downs a couple hundred gigs and has uploaded 20, that's total BS. Does it make sense however to ban that person? I dunno, they may make a valuable contribution at some point. Limiting the number of torrents they can be on to 1 or 2 might be viable. But I do think this thread is kinda dumb, cuz it's creating a problem where none really exists. All this is about is emotions. Some people get real upset over this subject, and they do have a right to feel, something. Forcing every member to have a smoking fat pipe hooked up to their m/c however is simply stupid, as is making them sit on a torrent for weeks, when their couple kb's doesn't amount to a tick on a cow's ass. Give credit/reward for deeds well done, rather than disciplining for poorer performance. This creates an incentive for people to do better.

marksg
2008-12-07, 10:28 PM
Gee, my comments were solely based on the premise of the thread, NOW I read all the hyperbole and flaming and some of it's really funny. I'm kinda starting to feel like I wish I hadn't seen this thread at all. personally my upload is capped at 35, and I may jump off one torrent with tons of seeders to jump on something else or to maintain a ratio at a site that enforces. But I'm also probably gonna share that show with you, if it's worthy and if you want it. So would my puny upload speed be more valuable sitting in a torrent with lots of seeders until I hit 1:1, or is it more valuable obtaining something to share, and if noone else out there jumps in to help seed I will have to upload well over 1:1 before any peers go to seed? I say the latter is a better use of my bandwidth. For you as well as me. The funny thing is, almost everytime I upload a show a seeder or 2 pops up and helps bring it home. My point is Why don't They upload the show instead, so that I can jump on and help out. And yes I end up on torrents all the time with very low amounts of seeders +/or peers. Those I will not jump off of and will frequently go over 1:1 I also disagree that upload credits should be segregated from upload stats. I'm talking about incentive to contribute. Hell sites like Zomb give you upload credits for donating. Actually buying a ratio! I just don't see how a person with no uploads or a few can bang on someone with dozens! That person is definitely not thoughtless. THOUGHTLESS was the point of this thread. To me thoughtless is D/L 200 gigs, U/L 12 or 22 gigs with no uploads. having a .25 or .45 or whatever less than 1 if you have shared dozens of torrents just doesn't fall into thoughtless, and folks that bust chops on someone in that category are wrong to do so IMO. I honestly would not change my mind if I got U-verse tomorrow with 18megs, that I see on TV. Sure my ratio would go up, hell without even trying actually. But I still would hold the seeder of 50 or 80 shows in higher esteem than someone with a 4.5 ratio that has shared nothing. Someone stated how simple that is to do. That's right it is. Thoughtless even, for it takes no effort. In my experience Uploading is far too much of a chore for the vast majority. They choose to not learn how, so they simply don't understand that it does require some effort, and give no credit to those that do. Bottom line any enforcement above .25 is a bad idea, and simply counterproductive. Maybe folks should think more about the good they themselves do and less about what others do. Unless someone leaves people hangin with no seed. Then they deserve to be drilled

BjEoThAn
2008-12-08, 03:00 AM
Normally I'd go with give them a few warnings but I'm seriously reconsidering now.
Okay so many people might not see it as an effort putting up a show but it is to me. So I'm seeding a show of my own today and see the 5th person completing just hit 100% and then close the client. I decide to check out his ratio and it shows:
Downloaded: 715.17 GB Uploaded: 55.61 GB Ratio: 0.08

Now maybe I'm just pissed that he didnt stick around to help seed my show, but with a ratio of 0.08 after 700+ GB downloaded it looks like that's his MO. People like that arent really helping the community and there should be restrictions to prevent people like that from leeching away...

...........// pissed of seeder....:mad:


Someone wrote me asking me to reseed a Metallica show and I dug it out and put it back on my computer and started seeding and added this note

"Once you have this please keep it open a while, I have some stuff I want to put up in the morning so I will probably shut this down and delete it again."

When I woke up in the morning, the person who wrote me had grabbed it and stopped seeding never to return while others had jumped on.

...........

......it's OK to search and download whatever you want( got plenty of time for that!), but can't "find the time" to leave your client open to give back. Funny how other tapers I've seen have ratios of 2, 5, 56 and higher. You might wanna ask them how they "find time."

..... excuses are legendary...........


well.. not much sense in adding to the fray...

but being new here I too caught on quick back in Oct 08...

It was thanks to some member here? who I talked to in person at the Buckethead concert in Charlotte, NC that I came here expecting to get a copy of his great taping setup I witnessed.

while I waited the 30 days for ISO... and after D/L some buckethead & that1guy & Les Claypool downloads.. I began seeding..

but its like the guys above me said..
it infuriates me to no end to see all the leechers who have downloaded and
NEVER come back to seed..

case in point:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=64999

The above URL is the one I have witnessed many downloads I have helped since getting it myself but the seeders (peer)list never grows... nab it and run it seems...

a courteous message to any current down loader of a seed I am helping with requesting that they in turn seed the download they finish for at least 3 days if not a week or more would be highly appreciated by me and the rest of TTD people like themselves.

shopkin
2008-12-08, 12:40 PM
boy...wonder if the leaching will ever end??????:hmm:

ccrider895
2008-12-09, 12:26 AM
Nah, their rationalizations are pretty darn amusing.


:popcorn:

vavoom
2008-12-09, 03:09 PM
Very interesting thread... lots of good & bad... maybe it's just me... but when I first joined these torrent sites a few years back... I read ALL of the info before jumping in head first... I always like to know what I'm getting into... and by reading all of the help & info sections first... I had a full understanding of what bit-torrent was all about... and how it worked... it seems most people these days want intsant gratification and care little about others... of course this is just one assholes opinion.

U2Lynne
2008-12-09, 03:23 PM
Very interesting thread... lots of good & bad... maybe it's just me... but when I first joined these torrent sites a few years back... I read ALL of the info before jumping in head first... I always like to know what I'm getting into... and by reading all of the help & info sections first... I had a full understanding of what bit-torrent was all about... and how it worked... it seems most people these days want intsant gratification and care little about others... of course this is just one assholes opinion.
You are the type of user any site would like! OK, maybe not all sites would appreciate the asshole part, but we don't mind a bit. :)

rspencer
2008-12-09, 05:04 PM
OK, maybe not all sites would appreciate the asshole part, but we don't mind a bit. :)

Potential staff member. :D

tikimaize
2008-12-09, 07:25 PM
I have one torrent site I go to that has a "shitlist". If you get below a certain ratio they put you on a shitlist, and you must redeem yourself by uploading only, to improve your ratio. Once you reach the said ratio you are then back in the good graces of the community and may download again. Anyone caught duping an account to avoid uploading has their IP permanently banned. They also have some torrents which are free and dont count againt your DL stats. This enables new people and people who get older torrents a chance to keep their ratio up. Mayby you could make the 1st 24hrs a torrent is up free and then start counting DL stats after that.

U2Lynne
2008-12-09, 07:48 PM
We actually do have some limits in place. From our FAQ (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/faq.php?faq=bittorrent#faq_connection_limit):
"Connection limit exceeded! You may only download/leech x shows at a time"
BitTorrents works by you downloading from one person and then uploading to another. In a perfect world, you would upload just as much as you download (and have a 1.0 ratio). In order to try to achieve this, you really should not be downloading/uploading a whole lot of torrents. This means that it will take you forever to download those shows (and inconvenience the seeders since they have to stay on that torrent so long to finish you off) and it means you aren't going to be uploading much since your bandwidth is taken up with all your downloads. So, we are limiting people to downloading only x shows at a time (while allowing them to still upload on other shows). Please keep in mind that it is best to seed only a few shows at a time to give people a good download rate from you.

Currently, the following is in affect:

downloaded less than 10 GB - may only download 4 shows at a time
less than 0.50 ratio and downloaded over 10 GB- may only download 3 shows at a time
less than 0.60 ratio and downloaded over 10 GB- may only download 4 shows at a time
less than 0.70 ratio and downloaded over 10 GB- may only download 5 shows at a time This is subject to change if we happen to notice people abusing the system. Also, if you register another username just to download more shows, you can be banned from the site.

dcbullet
2008-12-09, 07:57 PM
Mayby you could make the 1st 24hrs a torrent is up free and then start counting DL stats after that.

That would be like 50% of the bandwidth that goes through here. :lol4:

rspencer
2008-12-09, 08:54 PM
Better would be to make it free after a year. Why would we want to give the 1st 24 hours? That's exactly when all the hit-and-run downloaders are going to hit it. :wtf:

Or as some sites do it, if you're ratio is below a certain point, you can't d/l it at the start.

dcbullet
2008-12-09, 09:06 PM
Or as some sites do it, if you're ratio is below a certain point, you can't d/l it at the start.

I guess that is just a punitive measure because doesn't that actually make it harder for someone to improve their ratio (assuming they genuinely are trying to)?

bfrank
2008-12-13, 04:43 PM
I do pretty like keeping it the way it is :).

bfrank :)

rspencer
2008-12-13, 05:08 PM
Or as some sites do it, if you're ratio is below a certain point, you can't d/l it at the start.

I guess that is just a punitive measure because doesn't that actually make it harder for someone to improve their ratio (assuming they genuinely are trying to)?

Oh yeah. That's about all that accomplishes. Those with good ratios get it first, seed until they hit 1.0, then drop off. Leaving lots of people with bad ratios incomplete if nobody chooses to stay to seed to them. It can only be punishment, since they're never going to improve their ratio having to wait & come in late.

Jesus Christ
2009-01-02, 06:17 PM
the ban on downloading if you have a ratio less than 0.25 at Dime doesn't discourage hitting&running, because about a third of their membership have still gotten themselves banned.

that leaves you with a club that has a third of its membership out of the game. okay, so you can seed yourself back to 0.25 and start downloading 10 big torrents right away and still uberleech on those.

i think we should just name and shame the assholes, and let them deal with the abashment.

daddyray
2009-01-02, 06:29 PM
WWJD? oh wait we know....:)

uninvited94
2009-01-02, 06:34 PM
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/member.php?u=216980

Downloaded: 3.25 MB Uploaded: 11.44 GB Ratio: 3,603.00

Geek. :D

daddyray
2009-05-08, 04:23 PM
damn some folks here lately are fucking pigs relative to their lack of sharing....they should all be forced to listening to air supply.

Alex231
2009-05-08, 09:12 PM
This is such a useless thread :disbelief