whoweeds

[range_hood]

:hmm:

[Five]

am I jumping the gun by saying

lossy
lossless
lossy
lossless
lossy?

did you post in the threads there?

[range_hood]

I contacted the seeder.

So, there is this cutoff but no blocks noticeable. Could this be noise reduced?

[craig62]

You'll find many of the WhoWeeds discs have similar looking spectrographs.

Here's the lineage I have for WW13:

From a cassette master transferred to wav/cdr/shn after much tweaking & adjustment.

I think a lot of "tweaking & adjustment" was performed on the sources used for many of these discs.

Here's the frequency analysis for d1t06 from WW13:

[gsmyth79]

Does that sound like garbage? That's the earliest cutoff I've ever seen!

[hunterrose35]

AS THE SEEDER OF THE SERIES AND AFTER CHECKING JOHN'S FILES AGAINST MY AUDIO COPIES I MADE FROM THEM WHEN THEY CAME OUT THESE ARE THE MASTERS FIRST OF ALL. SECONDLY ANYONE WHO USES COOL EDIT OR ADOBE AUDITION WILL KNOW THAT USING ANY OF THE EFFECTS WILL AFFECT FREQUENCY RESPONSE.......THESE ARE NOT MP3 SOURCED. I TOOK SOME ZPPA SBD TRACKS I GOT TODAY AND USED THE HISS REDUCTION AND TIME STRECTCHING ON THEM..........AND IT WENT FROM LOSSLESS SPECTRAL TO ONE THAT LOOKS LIKE AN MP3 AFTER THE HISS REMOVAL.........ALL I AM SAYING IS TAKE A LOSSLESS TRACK AND PLAY WITH IT AND YOU WILL FIND THE SAME THINGS...................

IN THE MEANTIME ENJOY THE SHOWS FOR WHAT THEY ARE AND WHEN A BETTER SET COMES ALONG, UPGRADE. BTW THIS IS UP

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?returnto=%2Faccount-cp.php&id=54583

WW06 = The Who
Venue: The Coliseum; Los Angeles; CA.
Date: 8-26-89
Source: audience/ 3rd gen. analog>shn
Quality: VG/VG+
Media: 2 cdr shn. that folds out to 3 cdr audio
Remastered by: John Atyim
Artwork by: "P.A."

DISC 1:

01. Overture
02. It's A Boy
03. 1921
04. Amazing Journey
05. Sparks
06. The Acid Queen
07. Pinball Wizard
08. We're Not Gonna Take It
09. Eminence Front
10. Let My Love Open The Door
11. Face The Face
12. I'm A Man
13. I can't Explain
14. Substitute

DISC 2:

01. I Can See For Miles
02. Trick Of The Light
03. Boris The Spider
04. Who Are You

INTERMISSION

05. Magic Bus
06. Baba O'Riley
07. My Generation
08. A Little Is Enough
09. 5:15
10. Love Reign O'er Me
11. Sister Disco
12. Rough Boys
13. Join Toghether

DISC 3:

01. You Better You Bet
02. Behind Blue eyes
03. Won't Get Fooled Again

ENCORES

04. Hey Joe
05. Dig
06. Twist And Shout

[hunterrose35]

You'll find many of the WhoWeeds discs have similar looking spectrographs.

Here's the lineage I have for WW13:

From a cassette master transferred to wav/cdr/shn after much tweaking & adjustment.

I think a lot of "tweaking & adjustment" was performed on the sources used for many of these discs.

Here's the frequency analysis for d1t06 from WW13:


I cannot speak for WW13......John did not do that one...........I do not have the master files either............
WW13 = The Who
Venue: The Forum; Montreal, Canada
Date: 5-7-80
Source: audience/unknown generation analog>speed-corrected>CDR
Quality: VG-
Media: 2 cdr SHN. that folds out to 2 cdr audio
Remastered & Speed-corrected by: Rob Peet
Artwork by: Eric
however Rob peet does have a solid reputation in the who trading community.......

[Five]

okay well it seems that since no blocks are visible shows 1, 3 and 5 have just been LPF'ed imo too heavily. perhaps this was what the person who did the work felt was necessary to make a good listening experience from an old hissy tape, myself I'd prefer the hiss or at least keep something above 11kHz. I like what James did with the Dancing Avacado (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10413)... you get the raw and the cooked, even tho its plain to tell that James' version is a million times more listenable. It also opens up the option for somebody else to attempt a better mastering job.

[range_hood]

ww6 d1t2

[hunterrose35]

okay well it seems that since no blocks are visible shows 1, 3 and 5 have just been LPF'ed imo too heavily. perhaps this was what the person who did the work felt was necessary to make a good listening experience from an old hissy tape, myself I'd prefer the hiss or at least keep something above 11kHz. I like what James did with the Dancing Avacado (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10413)... you get the raw and the cooked, even tho its plain to tell that James' version is a million times more listenable. It also opens up the option for somebody else to attempt a better mastering job.

I do as well. Normally there are before and after versions available (like the BERTHA remasters).....at the same time this is what we got. time to move on..............

[hunterrose35]

btw WW10 will be put up here instead of dime

[hunterrose35]

this is not the first time this has happened.....when the shows were originally released the same issues crept up. what everyone needs to know is that whoweeds was formed because of the issues in other who groups of the time with bad discs......tao gapped shows, mp3's etc etc...........so this was a quality control thing with whoweeds..........mp3's were not allowed........

hntgzr sent me the following remembrances as well...........

Funnily enough, I was once daft enough to question John on the Frequency Analysis of most of the WhoWeeds series when I first joined the now defunct Yahoo Group.

I was niaive enough to think that because they had a low FA that they were or could have been MP3 sourced and was really just asking John to confirm that the copies I had were the original copies and matched the original MD5 files.

Needless to say, they are not MP3 sourced - they have merely been processed using Cool Edit Pro (or similar - I can't remember know exactly what John uses) and have had some amount of noise reduction and other filtering techniques applied to them.

When noice reduction is applied, the top end frequencies are sometimes flattened (this unfortunately gives a similar FA to that of an MP3).

If the person wishes to look at a Spectral Analysis of the WhoWeeds series, they will see that they are not MP3 sourced. FA's don't always give an accurate reading!

Hope that helps


I see that Craig62 has responded to the post on TTDen.

I have had many conversations with Craig about the way WhoWeeds material looks when run through FA. He is aware of John's mastering techniques.

Back in 2003 I shared a lot of the WW series with Craig on a Direct Connect hub. He is a big Who fan, as I am (as we are!).

He will remember me telling him that John A did a lot of noise reduction, etc, to his recordings - in fact I've just looked back at some emails from October 2003 with regard to this and John does indeed recognise the fact that some look like they are MP3 sourced with the method he used to clean them up. He stated he sometimes chopped off the top frequencies as part of his remastering technique.

I am sure nowadays, nearly 2 years on, that some filtering plugins in Adobe Audtion or WaveLab for example would do the job better - however, this was just not the case back in 2003.

[ssamadhi97]

okay well it seems that since no blocks are visible shows 1, 3 and 5 have just been LPF'ed imo too heavily.
Keep in mind that "no blocks" does not always mean that it's not lossy. Some lossy codecs exhibit little to no "blocking" but pretty much all of them use steep lowpass filters.


If the person wishes to look at a Spectral Analysis of the WhoWeeds series, they will see that they are not MP3 sourced. FA's don't always give an accurate reading!
Well spectral analysis pics have been presented and thanks to a very steep lowpass some of them "look lossy" to some extent as well.

Additionally, normal noise reduction would never introduce such a lowpass while preserving such an amount of noise in the lower frequency range, unless you explicitly exclude lower frequencies from processing and use it very heavy-handedly.

However if lowpass filtering was indeed part of the restauration ( :hmm: ) technique used on some of these files, it would explain the way some of the spectral analysis pictures above look.

[hunterrose35]

I received this in my DaD email.......

"you have to tell these stories. People like to read background information. Whoweeds is a part of history, there are archivists out there who bother."

so I figured wtf, let's ask John himself............

so I emailed John......

""you have to tell these stories. People like to read
background information. Whoweeds is a part of history,
there are archivists out there who bother."

This is the email I am getting.........this is your
work.....I am just passing it along........I don't
suppose you want to write a little history of whoweeds
overall? the why? the how? the decison to end?"

this was John's reply............................

"Y' wanna story ? Here's a little story about a rock & roll band called The Who, Britain's first real rock band, they started out as a pop band like the Beatles and the Stones but, they were the first of their kind. The 'Oo were the fucking greatest live rock & roll band there ever was... (end of story). Now, y'all can go back to sleep and dream....

Enjoy,
John (Mr. Whoweeds) "


so as you can see, and as me and other like Hntgzr have said.......ENJOY THE TUNES AND BE GRATEFUL FOR WHAT YOU HAVE GOT......... lucky john did not frag my computer. lmao.........if someone wants to try and create a whoweeds history, I will be happy to answer questions as best I can....but I am not the one.......i'm simply passing these along.....

[New Homebrew]

Interesting how examples 1, 3, and 5 look all the same - blackness over 11kHz. Maybe this means "tweaked by the same guy with the same methods"?

As with so much Who material doing the rounds, doesn't seem like worthwhile stuff to circulate.

[hunterrose35]

Interesting how examples 1, 3, and 5 look all the same - blackness over 11kHz. Maybe this means "tweaked by the same guy with the same methods"?

As with so much Who material doing the rounds, doesn't seem like worthwhile stuff to circulate.


actually they are worth having. and if you had read the posts they were all done by the same guy. and what do you mean so much who material making the rounds?

These are being put up by request of those who would like to check them out. I am not going to stop circulating them because you do not feel it is worth it. you have a choice. do not download.

and if there is so much who material doing the rounds as you say, maybe you can put your money where your mouth is and seed some upgrades? or you have better sounding stuff.......?

[freezer]

and if there is so much who material doing the rounds as you say, maybe you can put your money where your mouth is and seed some upgrades? or you have better sounding stuff.......?

I have some better sounding stuff, but I'm "torrent-challenged"......

I hope it's OK to have someone seed it for me. With lineage, too......

We started with some John Entwistle rough mixes and outtakes from "Too Late The Hero" and the mix-down reel was marked 7/16/79.

Try this link.......

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10682

[hunterrose35]

WW07 is up.........you will find the the FA is similar to 1,3, and 5......THIS DID GO THROUGH THE CEP TREATMENT

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=55073&viewcomm=606665#comm606665

WW07 = The Who
Venue: Miami Baseball Stadium; Miami, FL.
Date: 8-9-76
Source: audience/2nd gen.analog>cdr and remastered
Quality: VG-/VG
Media: 1 cdr SHN. that folds out to 2 cdr audio
Remastered by: John Atyim
Artwork by: "Slipkid"

WW07 - The Who at Miami Baseball Stadium; Miami, Florida

This recording here I have taken a likng to, and I'm sure you will to.
Not a very famous show and or common show on most Who collector's lists. With the on and off problems th band was sustaining during the '75 & 76 tour, Performance wise, this show kicks a solid amount of ass for it's time.

Here's are some notes about this recording.
On disc 2:
Track 2 "My Generation", due to tape deteriation, there is a cut
at about 40 seconds into the song.

Enjoy !

John

Disc 1:

01. I can't explain
02. substitute
03. my wife
04. baba o' riley
05. squeeze box
06. behind blue eyes
07. dreaming from the waist
08. magic bus
09. amazing journey
10. sparks
11. the acid queen
12. fiddle about
13. pinball wizard
14. i'm free
15. tommy's holiday camp
16. we're not gonna take it
17. see me feel me

Disc 2:

01. Summertime blues
02. My generation
03. join toghether blues
04. my generation blues
05. won't get fooled again

[hunterrose35]

I have some better sounding stuff, but I'm "torrent-challenged"......

I hope it's OK to have someone seed it for me. With lineage, too......

We started with some John Entwistle rough mixes and outtakes from "Too Late The Hero" and the mix-down reel was marked 7/16/79.

Try this link.......

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10682

this is a cool seed..........however I see no upgrades to any of the WHOWEEDS sets I have placed up so far...........all I am saying is if there are upgrades to these around........make them available........as for DIFFERENT SETS , more who is always welcome!! :cool:

[New Homebrew]

actually they are worth having. and if you had read the posts they were all done by the same guy. and what do you mean so much who material making the rounds?

These are being put up by request of those who would like to check them out. I am not going to stop circulating them because you do not feel it is worth it. you have a choice. do not download.

and if there is so much who material doing the rounds as you say, maybe you can put your money where your mouth is and seed some upgrades? or you have better sounding stuff.......?

What I mean is that generally speaking, and compared to other bands, those collecting The Who are careless regarding quality. Documented quality sources are out there, but It's easier to download a bootleg cd than find traders and tapers. The readily-available download/weed type material is substandard, and has proliferated widely, making that task even harder.

I don't care for the Who Weeds series. For example, the Miami 1976 show you mention, unaltered 1st gen transfers are available. Lower gen is also available for Volume 1 of the series. I'm sure people will still download them and enjoy them, but I wouldn't hold them up as final statements on a particular recording.

[hunterrose35]

What I mean is that generally speaking, and compared to other bands, those collecting The Who are careless regarding quality. Documented quality sources are out there, but It's easier to download a bootleg cd than find traders and tapers. The readily-available download/weed type material is substandard, and has proliferated widely, making that task even harder.

I don't care for the Who Weeds series. For example, the Miami 1976 show you mention, unaltered 1st gen transfers are available. Lower gen is also available for Volume 1 of the series. I'm sure people will still download them and enjoy them, but I wouldn't hold them up as final statements on a particular recording.

and as I said I can agree with the first paragraph whole heartedly.........as for the second paragraph , if you have first gen version of these then share them. these were done in 2003........if you have an uprgraded version set a new standard for the Who trading community, put your money where your mouth is...........otherwise.............I never said these were final statements on anything...........I said I had these and would put them up as there was a request for them............IF THERE ARE UPGRADES TO THESE PUT THEM OUT.

[freezer]

I said I had these and would put them up as there was a request for them............IF THERE ARE UPGRADES TO THESE PUT THEM OUT.

Hunter...

Is that a request or a demand?

I was at that 1989 Los Angeles Coliseum show (I might even have a very low gen of it), and at a few other Who shows with my trusty little recorder.

However, you might get better results if you asked politely.

And just who is this "John Atyim" when he's home, anyway? His message to you seems almost as rude as I could be, if I try.

[range_hood]

Just for reference.

[hunterrose35]

Hunter...

Is that a request or a demand?

I was at that 1989 Los Angeles Coliseum show (I might even have a very low gen of it), and at a few other Who shows with my trusty little recorder.

However, you might get better results if you asked politely.

And just who is this "John Atyim" when he's home, anyway? His message to you seems almost as rude as I could be, if I try.

First of all John can be Gruff, and I have know him for years.........you will not meet a more generous person, to those of us who do know him , that is his way of busting chops........but he has a low bullshit tolerance. that being said........


yes it is a demand...........there are those who can complain and say these are a waste of bandwidth, but then do not step up with anything of their own or in better quality. same concept of "if you do not vote you cannot bitch". if there are upgrades out there, which according to some responses I have gotten in the Dime Comments section as well as here, then let's see them.........I am all for an upgrade..........but if you are not gonna step up then shut up.............I have seeded dozens of shows, as well as moderate a snail mail group. Freezer you did put up a cool John Entwistle set. Thank you.......as for everyone else........where are these proliferation of who shows? where are these upgrades...................? I have seen nothing. no upgrades of any of the whoweeds sets. and I believe maybe 3-4 torrents total so far between DIME and TDD featuring the who since I started. I feel I can make the demand. I have taken the time , the bandwidth, and the resources to make these shows avaiable BY REQUEST. if some one is gonna tell me they have better versions, THEN POST THEM FOR EVERYONE OR STFU. enough said.

Freezer thank you for torrenting some cool stuff . I look forward to more of it. WW08 is up.

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?returnto=%2Faccount-cp.php&id=55616

WW08 = The Who
Venue: The Kingdome; Seattle, WA.
Date: 10-20-82
Source: soundboard/FM ? SBD>1st gen.analog>SHN
Quality: EX/EX-
Media: 2 cdr SHN. that folds out to 2 cdr audio
Remastered by: John Atyim
Artwork by: Dan "The Pen Ball Wizard"


Disc 1:

01. My Generation
02. I Can't Explain
03. Dangerous
04. Sister Disco
05. The Quiet One
06. It's Hard
07. Eminence Front
08. Behind BLue Eyes
09. Baba O'Riley
10. I Can See For Miles
11. Drowned
12. A Man Is A Man

Disc 2:

01. Cry If You Want
02. Who Are You
03. Pinball Wizard
04. See Me Feel Me
05. 5:15
06. Love Reign O'er Me
07. Long Live Rock
08. Won't Get Fooled Again
09. Magic Bus
10. Summertime Blues
11. Twist And Shout

[4leafclover]

Hunter...

Is that a request or a demand?

I was at that 1989 Los Angeles Coliseum show (I might even have a very low gen of it), and at a few other Who shows with my trusty little recorder.

However, you might get better results if you asked politely.

And just who is this "John Atyim" when he's home, anyway? His message to you seems almost as rude as I could be, if I try.


Polite request: a verified gen copy of LZ 022875. Excellent recording!
Worth a shot??

[freezer]

Polite request: a verified gen copy of LZ 022875. Excellent recording!
Worth a shot??

You want that as a 10th gen analog>mp3?

I can't wait to see that analyzed and discussed here.

:rolleyes:

The sky is falling...The sky is falling.... :lol

[4leafclover]

You want that as a 10th gen analog>mp3?

I can't wait to see that analyzed and discussed here.

:rolleyes:

The sky is falling...The sky is falling.... :lol

:eek:
...was thinking of something a little closer to the master copy, before the mp3
compression :D

Seriously though, can't say I blame ya for wantin' to keep it on ice.
Freeze!
;)