The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble
 

Notices

Technobabble Post your general Need for Help questions here.
Lossy or Lossless?
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2012-06-08, 10:53 PM
siavash siavash is offline
28.28 GB/20.63 GB/0.73
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

When people list certain bootlegs as being "masters", does that entail that it was recorded/authored by that person, or does it just mean that they happen to have an exact copy of the master?

Also, would you rather have a trader only list his own recordings as his "masters", or should he include masters that he got from other people (carbon copies)? This has been confusing me for a while, and I don't want to accidentally give people the idea that I somehow managed to fly from a Maiden show in Brazil to a Dio show in Germany in 1 day...
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2012-06-09, 01:21 AM
Ghostwheel's Avatar
Ghostwheel Ghostwheel is offline
HOINFODALER
TTD VIP
125.63 GB/326.13 GB/2.60
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Re: Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

unless i recorded it, i do not list it as a master. but, that's just me.
__________________
"Oh man, that's a juicy burger."
http://www.youtube.com/GhostwheelProduction
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2012-06-09, 01:42 AM
cicada's Avatar
cicada cicada is offline
Long Distance Runner
447.58 GB/415.68 GB/0.93
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: north of the medicine line
Re: Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

When you record a show... that source is the master (some people call this "first generation" or gen1). If you and I were buddies in 1984, I might have dubbed a copy of your tape in the hotel across the street or maybe the next week at a party in your living room. That is 2nd generation. Now my roommate comes home from class and sees my tape, so he adds one more generation when he dubs a copy from me... he has a 3rd generation recording. And so on down the line. Analog recordings in my archives have so many generations in most cases (although I have some masters where I ran the deck and kept the tape).

We are so spoiled to now have access to lossless masters and low-gen transfers. Who would have imagined such a world!
__________________
Who's drawing crazy patterns on your sheets?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2012-06-09, 01:59 AM
siavash siavash is offline
28.28 GB/20.63 GB/0.73
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Re: Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicada View Post
When you record a show... that source is the master (some people call this "first generation" or gen1). If you and I were buddies in 1984, I might have dubbed a copy of your tape in the hotel across the street or maybe the next week at a party in your living room. That is 2nd generation. Now my roommate comes home from class and sees my tape, so he adds one more generation when he dubs a copy from me... he has a 3rd generation recording. And so on down the line. Analog recordings in my archives have so many generations in most cases (although I have some masters where I ran the deck and kept the tape).

We are so spoiled to now have access to lossless masters and low-gen transfers. Who would have imagined such a world!
What if it's not analog and it's digital? What if I traded with the person who recorded the show and he/she sent me the master online? Would that still be considered a master and should I list it as such online?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2012-06-09, 06:22 AM
AAR.oner's Avatar
AAR.oner AAR.oner is offline
ense et aratro
TTD Staff
1.11 TB/1.41 TB/1.27
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Appalachia
Re: Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

i would...digital copying, if done correctly, results in no altering of the files
__________________
TTD's Gear Lust Forum -- info & reviews on taping gear
Basics of EQing

"A man is none the less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years."
- Lysander Spooner
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2012-06-09, 06:11 PM
siavash siavash is offline
28.28 GB/20.63 GB/0.73
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Re: Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

So what about a person who insists on only trading masters for masters? Does that mean they only trade shows that they have personally recorded, or do they also trade for exact copies of the original master?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2012-06-09, 07:19 PM
rspencer's Avatar
rspencer rspencer is offline
TTD Hoarder
TTD Staff
178.57 GB/225.72 GB/1.26
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: the outer limits
Re: Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

in that case, it's almost always that they are trading to you shows that they have recorded for shows that you have recorded.
__________________
My main list .... My masters

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCMAN101 View Post
Sorry. I'm busy not partying at college.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
I hate not being a real man.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2012-06-09, 09:37 PM
trustthex's Avatar
trustthex trustthex is offline
Trainwreckin' Fool
566.69 GB/2.95 TB/5.32
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Denton, TX
Re: Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

Quote:
Originally Posted by rspencer View Post
in that case, it's almost always that they are trading to you shows that they have recorded for shows that you have recorded.
More often looking for shows not in common circulation.
__________________
The critics of the Information Age see everything in the negative, as if the quantity of information can lead to a loss of meaning. They said the same thing about Gutenberg.
-Timothy Leary


Meatwad: I thought you said TV was bad.
Frylock: It is. But we fucking need it.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2012-06-09, 10:21 PM
siavash siavash is offline
28.28 GB/20.63 GB/0.73
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Re: Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

Quote:
Originally Posted by trustthex View Post
More often looking for shows not in common circulation.
Hello, fellow Texan!

So how do you guys recommend organizing one's list? I'm thinking of indicating masters, copies of masters, 1st generation, 2nd generation, 3+ generation, and Unknowns.

What falls under the category of being in "common circulation"? Especially with less sought-after bands?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2012-06-12, 11:05 AM
splumer's Avatar
splumer splumer is offline
Hello.
51.02 GB/142.65 GB/2.80
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

Quote:
Originally Posted by siavash View Post
What if it's not analog and it's digital? What if I traded with the person who recorded the show and he/she sent me the master online? Would that still be considered a master and should I list it as such online?
Calling a recording a master is kind of superfluous in the digital age. When analog recordings were the only thing available, it mattered, but as long as the lineage to a particular recording is lossless, there should be no difference between the "master" and any subsequent copies. They are clones.

Quote:
So how do you guys recommend organizing one's list? I'm thinking of indicating masters, copies of masters, 1st generation, 2nd generation, 3+ generation, and Unknowns.

What falls under the category of being in "common circulation"? Especially with less sought-after bands?
I have all my shows listed on a Excel spreadsheet, listing, in order: band, date, venue, city, state (or country), quality, number of discs, source and notes. I used to use phishhook.com to host my list, but after a couple of scares where the site went down, I decided to download the delimited file from there, import it into Excel, and have that be my master list. I don't remember the last time I updated my phishhook list, and I doubt it's used much anymore.

"Common circulation" just means the shows every fan of a particular band has. For example, most Pink Floyd collectors have Oakland 77 and Wembly 74. With less-popular bands, the shows in common circulation are probably even more specific, simply because there aren't as many shows in the pool.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #11  
Old 2012-06-25, 02:55 PM
Luke_of_Mass's Avatar
Luke_of_Mass Luke_of_Mass is offline
Ancient Torrent Bumper
72.95 GB/123.17 GB/1.69
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New England
Re: Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

ya know, i'm really glad this was brought up because i've been wondering this lately myself.

the concept of 'master' seems to have become more or less a psychological thing when trading digital music which is lossless and identical to what was recorded digitally in the first place. and especially now that trading flacs of shows with an additional text file disclosing the exact lineage and other details about the show has become customary, theoretically anyone could claim to be the taper of something digitally recorded. especially if it hasn't been circulated much.

...and now that i think of it, calling the person who recorded the preformance the "taper" is a bit of an obsolite term now, too-- since the majority of recordings now are digital, not analogue, and therefore tape recording is simply a thing of the past. (although with that said i plan to test out a sony D-6 i found at a yardsale the other day at a concert coming up...)

i havent recorded many things and i am a relatively new collector/trader. but if i was an active taper who started decades ago, i dont think i would be able to trade my master tapes because of sentimental value... maybe that's just to be expected or perhaps im just a hoarder...

well i suppose i'll go to my etree list and proclaim all of the recordings with purely digital lineages to be masters !!

cheers
__________________
always looking for trades and open for B&P !!

Check out my list: http://db.etree.org/Luke_of_Mass
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #12  
Old 2012-06-25, 04:10 PM
rspencer's Avatar
rspencer rspencer is offline
TTD Hoarder
TTD Staff
178.57 GB/225.72 GB/1.26
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: the outer limits
Re: Logistical Question about Bootleg Lists Online

You don't usually trade analog masters. Keeping them is expected.
You make a copy to trade, which is a 1st generation.

As far as digital, I think every show I've recorded has a cut somewhere in the seeded/traded copy (bathroom break, talking cut out, etc.). So I'm the only one with the master, for what that's worth.
__________________
My main list .... My masters

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCMAN101 View Post
Sorry. I'm busy not partying at college.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
I hate not being a real man.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Bootleg Question?? - YearZirO Technobabble 4 2007-08-11 03:49 PM
Hosting collection lists online? - akk02 Technobabble 4 2007-05-30 08:26 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:01 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts