The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble
 

Notices

Technobabble Post your general Need for Help questions here.
Lossy or Lossless?
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2004-11-28, 03:37 PM
skahorn
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
vinyl to flac?

hey all,
I've been reading the threads on master casettes to flac with interest. I've got a pile of vinyl boots and I'd like to make them available. Can I assume that I should follow the advice given for tape to flac since both are analog sources?

The vinyl is in great shape & I can use Cool Edit Pro 2.0 to clean it up if I have to.

From reading everything I think my work goes like this:

Make a clean digital copy of the vinyl, one large wave file for each disk side.
Analog direct into soundcard too noisy, buy or borrow a dat deck.
Get wav files into the computer.
Use Cool edit pro 2.0 to check dc offsets, correct if needed. Cool edit pro 2.0
Pop Click removal if needed.
Use cdwav to index wav file into individual tracks.

OK..
What do I have wrong or what am I missing?
Thanks for the help.

Once I get that far I'll read up on how to set it up properly as an upload

Oh yeah,
I want to start with a 1984 double lp of Los Lobos as soon as I figure out if it's a real bootleg or not. It's titled "Anselma is alive and well tonight" on the cover and "and now los lobos and the time to dance" on the spine. There is no text on the disk lablels just images.

ska
Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2004-11-28, 04:06 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: vinyl to flac?

You've completely got the right idea here. A couple small notes, the impedence of a turntable is different from a cassette deck, so you'll need some kind of preamp for it. Perhaps the "phono" setting on your amp and take the lineout from there to your soundcard. When you go to fix "pops and clicks" using CEP avoid running a noise reduction algorithm on each entire side--instead find each individual pop and fix using Effects > Noise Reduction > Click and pop removal > Fill single click now. I know this is laborious but when you run a pop remover on an entire file it will remove a lot of the transients and dull the sound. Seeing as your vinyl is in great shape you should be able to eliminate the big pops one at a time and preserve more of the natural sound of the lps. I can post some screenshots to show you more specifically how to fill individual pops in the next couple days if you like.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2004-11-28, 04:17 PM
New Homebrew
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: vinyl to flac?

Watch out for any little skips, jumps, or repeats when you play the record. They'll be preserved perfectly in your files! Monitor closely, with headphones if possible, and do over if the needle jumps or something.

Vinyl is really aggravating to make it right. Are you sure there isn't a tape out there somewhere?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2004-11-28, 04:44 PM
wazoo2u wazoo2u is offline
82.15 MB/96.22 MB/1.17
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: vinyl to flac?

Also, you need a really clean connection from the Magnetic Phono Cartridge into the preamp. Make sure there's no induced hum or buzz in the chain. Turntable should be physically isolated (Rubber Spring Feet or other insulator) from the rest of the room, so footsteps, and physical vibrations aren't transmitted through the pickup. Make sure the turntable isn't generating motor noise and rumble.

Still wanna do this ????
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2004-11-28, 04:52 PM
RainDawg's Avatar
RainDawg RainDawg is offline
Renegade Geek
10.20 GB/20.72 GB/2.03
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Passing swiftly through The Moor
Re: vinyl to flac?

Yeah, aside from wazoo's comments, I want to caution you about the pop-click removal. If you run it on large sections of audio, it will ruin it. You really to zoom in on just the pop (usually 10-20 samples or so) and maybe 5-10 samples on each side of it. Once you get the hang of finding and zooming on them, it gets easier....I just remember the first few times I tried this it took me forever just find the pop in the waveform. The temptation to select a whole second of audio and run the click remval tool can be high, but don't do it....
__________________
Through the clouds,
Throught the lies,
We'll never see,
What's never been,
At the ending of life and the coming of death,
Pass not through its gates but into the dark.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2004-12-01, 06:59 PM
skahorn
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: vinyl to flac?

Good advice all!
I'm running the Disk on a very decent old Dennon turntable with a good cartridge, good short cables and rubber feet etc...
Line level is fine since the preamp, a Carver C-1, has a special input for the cartidge.
Unfortunately, I understand exactly why the pops & clicks have to be done by hand...
Oh well, the vinyl is in really good shape so there won't be many to do, anyway this stuff is a labor of love, right?
I've spent enough time working with CEP that I can find my way through the waveforms without too much trouble.
Five, I'd be interested in a few screen shots showing what you're talking about if you have the time.

Lets see, what else..
New Homebrew, I'm pretty sure there in no tape out there. I have seen very little Los Lobos at all. That, and the fact that the vinyl is in good shape, are why I'm contemplating doing this.

Wazoo2u,
I'm never sure I want to do half the things I do....
Thanks folks!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2004-12-01, 07:23 PM
nonymouse
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: vinyl to flac?

How old is your needle? If it is more than 6 months old, I would replace it before doing the transfer. This has to be your first priority. If you have a cheap or worn-out needle it won't matter how good your connects are, or how pristine your vinyl is!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2004-12-01, 09:16 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: vinyl to flac?

How to Fix Clicks/Pops with CEP/Audition

1. Listen for the click/pop. Toggle between Waveform and Spectral views to help you see it.



Switch to your time display to "Samples".



2. Zoom in a little.



3. Use spectral view, and select the center of the click/pop. Do as little processing as possible, try to use the center 40 samples or so. 99% of the time you will never have to select more than 100 samples to eliminate the click/pop. Select Effects>Noise Reduction>Click/Pop Eliminator>Fill Single Click Now.



4. The Click/Pop is fixed! Listen carefully to the before/after and use Edit>Undo frequently during the repair.



I find it helps to keep notepad open to jot down numbers and an image editor to quickly grab screenshots (Alt + Print Scrn or Ctrl + Print Scrn then Ctrl + V to paste the image). Work slowly and carefully, and don't be satisfied until you know that you've done your best. Special thanks to rbuzz who taught me this technique back at STG.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry

Last edited by Five; 2007-04-20 at 12:09 PM. Reason: repairing picture links
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2004-12-01, 09:21 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: vinyl to flac?

Here's a couple more screenshots of clicks/pops in spectral view.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg attachment_002.jpg
( 142.7 KB, 26 views)
 
File Type: jpg attachment.jpg
( 91.7 KB, 19 views)
 
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2004-12-02, 04:14 AM
e6003 e6003 is offline
1.66 GB/2.62 GB/1.58
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Reading, Berks, UK
Re: vinyl to flac?

I don't know if it's something Cool Edit Pro, etc., support, but I found a useful program called Wave Repair which is specifically designed for aiding the transfer of vinyl to CD. It has pop and click detection, but also allows you to manually redraw the waveform to eliminate such artefacts - rather than doing it automatically. I have used it with some success in the past for transferring some official LPs - but the pop and click removal process can be so labour-intensive that sometimes I've just given up and bought a cheap copy of the CD re-release! Find it at http://www.delback.co.uk/wavrep/ (demo version that works for 30 days or something, before you have to register it, unless you just want to use it as a hard disk audio recorder).
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #11  
Old 2004-12-02, 06:21 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: vinyl to flac?

Quote:
Originally Posted by e6003
I don't know if it's something Cool Edit Pro, etc., support, but I found a useful program called Wave Repair which is specifically designed for aiding the transfer of vinyl to CD. It has pop and click detection, but also allows you to manually redraw the waveform to eliminate such artefacts - rather than doing it automatically. I have used it with some success in the past for transferring some official LPs - but the pop and click removal process can be so labour-intensive that sometimes I've just given up and bought a cheap copy of the CD re-release! Find it at http://www.delback.co.uk/wavrep/ (demo version that works for 30 days or something, before you have to register it, unless you just want to use it as a hard disk audio recorder).
Hmmm... Wave Repair looks like one of those programs that could either be really really good or really really bad, not sure which. Would it be possible to get a short before/after sample of your work using this program, e6003?
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #12  
Old 2004-12-02, 07:12 AM
e6003 e6003 is offline
1.66 GB/2.62 GB/1.58
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Reading, Berks, UK
Re: vinyl to flac?

It's about two years ago since I last used it! I have some albums that I transferred to CD, but I don't know if I kept the original WAV files and I'd have to rip the CDs I created. I only did about two albums with it, which I couldn't find on CD. I was going to dig it out to repair a section of a bottleg LP I intend to seed at some point, but probably not to do each little scratch or click. I'll see what I can do about the samples... (I think I'm also something of a cloth-ears who's easily pleased audio-wise )
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #13  
Old 2004-12-02, 07:20 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: vinyl to flac?

Thanks for your efforts and please do let me hear the before/afters when you get to doing those repairs. I'm very much against wholesale noise reduction being run on long stretches of audio. Even for on-the-spot fixes I'd have to see proof that this prog works well before I'd endorse it in any way. I'll grab a demo & try it out sometime soon, thanks for the link!
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #14  
Old 2004-12-03, 09:46 AM
skahorn
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: vinyl to flac?

Thanks Five.

Awesome help!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #15  
Old 2004-12-03, 01:59 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: vinyl to flac?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skahorn
Thanks Five.

Awesome help!
You're welcome! Let me know how it goes for you.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
The Rolling Stones 1960s Necrophilia - unreleased vinyl - Label mecca (FLAC) - quadrophenia Audio Torrents 130 2015-04-10 10:27 PM
Vinyl analogue to FLAC transfers - alg Technobabble 39 2005-12-12 03:09 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:01 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts