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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2005-06-26, 05:00 PM
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Question White Stripes 2002-04-08 DAT AUD ~ question

I just received the White Stripes 2002-04-08 show at the Bowery Ballroom in a B+P as data. This is the lineage of the SHN files on that data CDR:

Audience > Danish Pro Audio mics > Sony TCD-D100 > DAT(M) > CDR(x) > EAC(secure/read offset +41, write offset +18 corrected) > WAV > mkwACT 0.96 > SHN

When I listened to the SHNs, I found that they had 2-second TAO gaps. I decoded to WAV and I removed the gaps in CDWave (without creating any SBEs ).

I've listened intently to the show all the way through a several times since this morning. Other than Jack White's very hoarse voice, it sounds very good. No swishy cymbals or jangle jangle of mp3-sourced audio. I opened up a whole of bunch of the WAVs in Audacity to view the FA and SA. The frequency analysis looked to fine to me, but the spectral made me feel like I definitely needed to seek you guys' expert opinion. So here are some screenshots for you to view. Thanks in advance! :biggrin:

Track 5 = Little Bird:





microphone feeds back here (those two dark patches are high-pitched squeals)


Track 16 = Expecting/The Object of My Affection:



guitar feedback






Despite appearances, this track does not sound thin. Near the end of the track, where Jack sings "The Object of My Affection" a cappella, is echoey as his voice reverberates in the Ballroom.

Track 25 = Jimmy the Exploder:








What could have made the spectral analysis of these three tracks look like this? The taper set the levels too low during recording? Something to do with the battery level perhaps? I think this show is lossless, but obviously I want to be 100% sure. What do you guys think?
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Old 2005-06-26, 06:01 PM
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Re: White Stripes 2002-04-08 DAT AUD ~ question

from the FA it looks like it was taped a little low, yes.

In Audacity, go to File > Preferences > Spectrograms

change the FFT size to 512 and the Maximum Frequency (Hz) to 22000. right now your spectral view is displaying only up to 7000 (default) but most of the helpful information is over 12000Hz and isn't showing in the screenshots. So if you get a chance it would be cool to look at some new SA screenshots with this setting, at least one zoomed in on two seconds. it is also possible to stretch the display by pulling at the bottom of it.

So far it doesn't look lossy, just weak (as you mention). The FA rolls off slowly and smoothly, unlike typical mp3 sources which usually drop like a cliff or staircase at some point.
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Old 2005-06-26, 06:22 PM
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Thumbs up Re: White Stripes 2002-04-08 DAT AUD ~ question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
from the FA it looks like it was taped a little low, yes.

In Audacity, go to File > Preferences > Spectrograms

change the FFT size to 512 and the Maximum Frequency (Hz) to 22000. right now your spectral view is displaying only up to 7000 (default) but most of the helpful information is over 12000Hz and isn't showing in the screenshots. So if you get a chance it would be cool to look at some new SA screenshots with this setting, at least one zoomed in on two seconds. it is also possible to stretch the display by pulling at the bottom of it.

So far it doesn't look lossy, just weak (as you mention). The FA rolls off slowly and smoothly, unlike typical mp3 sources which usually drop like a cliff or staircase at some point.
Thank you! I will do that right now and get some new screenshots for you to look at. :biggrin:
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Old 2005-06-26, 06:56 PM
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Re: White Stripes 2002-04-08 DAT AUD ~ question

OK, I fixed the spectrogram settings in Audacity. I made new screenshots of the same spots as the originals plus a zoomed-in spectral view.

Track 5 = Little Bird:



microphone feedback




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Old 2005-06-26, 07:35 PM
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Re: White Stripes 2002-04-08 DAT AUD ~ question

that looks like a good source to me
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Old 2005-06-26, 07:37 PM
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Re: White Stripes 2002-04-08 DAT AUD ~ question

Track 16 = Expecting/The Object of My Affection:









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Old 2005-06-26, 07:40 PM
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Re: White Stripes 2002-04-08 DAT AUD ~ question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
that looks like a good source to me



Thank you! I appreciate your help. :biggrin:
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