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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2005-06-04, 07:00 AM
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MP3 in lineage?

Hey, here's a show, I know it was rec'd on MD, but i'm terribly worried about a mp3-gen somewhere in the lineage...

freq is cut off at 16khz, and it sounds quite lossy. but it's got those square blocks at the top which afaik is typical for minidisc...

also: i converted one of the flacs to wav, and then converted the wav to mp3 160 kbps, and compared the wav to the mp3, and found basically NO difference - is that a reliable method for determining this? well - frequency analysis of the two show more loss after my mp3 compression than before... i include screens of a 2 second spectral view of both the orig. wav and the mp3.

so, see attachments, and please help me figure this out!
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File Type: jpg freqanal_wav.jpg
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File Type: jpg spectral_mp3.jpg
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File Type: jpg spectral_wav.jpg
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  #2  
Old 2005-06-04, 07:18 AM
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Re: MP3 in lineage?

this is a tough one

it looks believeably like pure MD to me at the moment but I'll have to dig up an MD show and double-check in a couple days.

would love some feedback from others on this
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  #3  
Old 2005-06-04, 10:27 AM
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Re: MP3 in lineage?

Was the minidisc recording in mp3?
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  #4  
Old 2005-06-04, 12:14 PM
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Re: MP3 in lineage?

The main difference for me is the loss of the noise above 15 kHz. The rest looks quite similar though the mp3 lost some more blocks.

So could this be lp2 (132kbps)? As the codecs ar similar could this be the reason why theres not much more loss when encoding an atrac 132kbps to 160kbps mp3?
What if you go below this 132kps, f. e. 128kbps mp3? Is there much more loss visible?

Iīm missing some examples for lp2 and lp4 as I only have an old MD walkman laying around here thats not capable of doing.

Does anyone have spectrals of known lp2/lp4 sources? Five?
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Old 2005-06-04, 05:11 PM
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Re: MP3 in lineage?

I see you found them, good job!
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ead.php?t=8003

I'm gonna stick that to the top for reference.

this is baffling how converting to mp3 shows no difference on this show in the SA. I think when I get home I'll try converting a couple of tracks from MD sources to mp3 and examining if they typically change.

The real challange here is that MD is lossy and allowed, so with very recent shows of unknown origin we have to really squint and scratch our heads. MD>MP3>lossless is very very challenging to spot for me (and others I'm sure).
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  #6  
Old 2005-06-04, 06:43 PM
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Re: MP3 in lineage?

Yeah, thatīs difficult.

darkstarjunkie, what show is this. What about the lineage do you know.
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  #7  
Old 2005-06-05, 11:36 AM
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Re: MP3 in lineage?

it's a show by a band called Motorpsycho from Norway. this is a somewhat quiet track, but all tracks seem to show the same frequencies. lineage is uncertain, but something like MD > PC > ? > flac - i'm worried about there being a mp3 somewhere in there, but.... actually, the show is at dimeadozen:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=44465

i doubt it being LP2, unless the taper ran out of empty minidiscs. he's a quality-concerned taper (without better equpiment than minidisc) so i assume there's no LP2 or such.
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  #8  
Old 2005-06-05, 11:53 AM
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Re: MP3 in lineage?

hey, i remembered i have some tracks from this show (& source) which definitely has no mp3 gens or anything. i'll do a little comparison and see.
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  #9  
Old 2005-06-05, 06:30 PM
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Re: MP3 in lineage?

post up some screenshots if you get the chance we'll do our best to help out.
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  #10  
Old 2005-06-08, 09:13 PM
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Re: MP3 in lineage?

spidey senses are telling me that this one's mp3
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  #11  
Old 2005-06-10, 04:36 PM
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Re: MP3 in lineage?

i'm waiting for more info on the alternate version of the show (some tracks on a compilation, most likely from the same source, but i don't know for sure yet). i'll let you know! thanks for the help!
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