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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2009-04-16, 05:15 PM
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Is this FM, lossy or DAT?

Hello everyone,

Good to see this place back.

I upped a show (The Mission Amsterdam 1993) on Dime which I got about 10 years ago. When I received it in the trade the guy said in his notes that is was a radiobroadcast (John Peel BBC). I never found any reference to this being aired. I got a batch of his recordings and for most of them the notes indicate that he used either a DAT or Minidisc to transfer. I've attached some spectral analysis someone did for me. I would be grateful for any opinions.
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File Type: jpg Mish1993-09-09 - AfterGlow Analisys.jpg
( 191.8 KB, 30 views)
 
File Type: jpg mission1993-09-09-track11-SpecZoom@3mto3m2s.jpg
( 228.6 KB, 26 views)
 
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  #2  
Old 2009-04-16, 06:07 PM
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Re: Is this FM, lossy or DAT?

hey Karst can you add a link to a sample/very short song via flac rapidshare link?

could be 32kHz dat but can't quite see enough from these shots...
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  #3  
Old 2009-04-16, 06:35 PM
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Re: Is this FM, lossy or DAT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five View Post
hey Karst can you add a link to a sample/very short song via flac rapidshare link?

could be 32kHz dat but can't quite see enough from these shots...
Hi!
I've talked about this with Karst, so he shoud post the track "Deliverance".

That's what I found and told him

"... the only thing I found strange is that the guy who gave you this show said is BBC recording, but to me it's an audience (but outstanding recording as close around the taper you can hear some people chatting, laughing or clapping.

The most evident clips are in "deliverance":
- 0:08->0:13 there's people speaking/screaming too close to the taper
- 2:34->2:38 you can hear clearly someone clapping too loud and near the taper, too much over the overall sound of the instruments/voice of the band

that's should not happen or be heard in a SBD recording, also the sound is a little bit "distant" (the club-echoing while wayne speaks during the stop of beyond t.p., even if there's delay effect on his mic) and all is too "hall-reverbered", also often Wayne's mic changes too much sound direction or power, getting confused with the overall sound, whild SBD have all instruments and voice in a distinct position in the stereo (or mono) channels.

Obviously it's my personal opinion (and ears :-) ), but I'm quite sure of what I said and actually doesn't matter to post it there, II'll do it only if at TDD will think it's a mixing desk DAT 32khz, or they would not be sure of what kind of source it is...
"

Then it happened what I thought and so I'm posting this to you staff !!

Obvoiusly I also found strange the Spec analysis and maybe even if it's an AUD rec, it could be possible they did with somethig similar to a 32khz DAT

Regards
Gagliem
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  #4  
Old 2009-04-17, 08:32 AM
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Re: Is this FM, lossy or DAT?

Here is a link to Afterglow (reprise): http://rapidshare.com/files/22241225...glow.flac.html

Hopefully that will give a good indication. One thing though is that they use a backing tape with this one.

Thanks to Gagliem with all his help on this one. I'm not sure about the Deliverance issue to be honest. I was at this concert and the ceiling is quite low and during this song there is a lot of participation from the audience hence the opening of the mikes maybe. The reverb used by the MK. II line-up of the band is pretty well established. And probably what caused the restart. One thing I'm thinking at the moment is that this might have been a copy the band ran for themselves to listen back? It was the first time the line-up was out on the road and they made a good few mistakes in the process because they were still learning the ropes. Would appreciate anyone's thoughts...
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Old 2009-04-17, 03:34 PM
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Re: Is this FM, lossy or DAT?

I feel confident that this is a very close AUD recording, possibly front of the stage? the clapping, talking and low vocals show that it is not an FM--altho its a logical (yet incorrect imo) guess from the evidence of heavy compression and 16kHz cutoff.

this would not get to air on any station with the vocals buried the way they are, and no SBD has vocals this low that I've ever heard.

it has been heavily processed by an amateur, the highs are removed (probably indicating that there was most probably nothing but noise up there due to ... ?? ... 32kHz DAT, ???, ... not certain...).

the highs still contain some amount of noise which wouldn't be there if this was a direct mp3>wav>flac source, but seeing as its been so heavily compressed its most probably also heavily eq'ed which could concieveably create this little bit of noise in the highs.

since the area where the mp3 cutoff could have been is obliterated we are left with only our ears to decide... the hihats sound swishy, but I couldn't say one way or another with confidence.

anyhow, hope this helps, maybe a couple other people could give a listen to those swishy cymbals and give a guess what this source is...

either way, the original untampered source would be a delicious find, from the beginning part before the music starts you can tell it was originally (before overprocessing) a very very high quality aud imo.
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  #6  
Old 2009-04-17, 04:49 PM
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Gagliem Gagliem is offline
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Re: Is this FM, lossy or DAT?

I agree with you Five... your considerations match with mine...

And I also agree with you that only having the original unprocessed master, we could determine exactly if it's a lossless source...

Best Regards
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