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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2005-04-28, 11:30 PM
NoddingTurdFAN NoddingTurdFAN is offline
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Mp3 Minidisc or Neither?

Just when I thought I was getting good w/ this stuff I get thrown a curve ball. Have had this cdr in my collection for about 6 years. Always believed this to be a MiniDisc sourced recording but heard recently it may have been DAT. Ran it through CEP and now Im not sure what it is...

Here are three shots. A 2 second Spec, A full Track Spec and a Full Track Freq Analysis.

The "stripes" at 8 and 16 K are what's realy bothering me.

Whaddya think?

*FWIW - It's Mr Bungle 1995 - Deep Ellum - Dallas, TX

Thanks,

E
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File Type: jpg 2secSpec.jpg
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File Type: jpg TrackFreq.jpg
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File Type: jpg TrackSpec.jpg
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  #2  
Old 2005-04-29, 12:02 AM
NoddingTurdFAN NoddingTurdFAN is offline
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Re: Mp3 Minidisc or Neither?

Here's an AnalFreq shot....

The Freq doesn't look lossy but the Spectrum still has me confused...

Thx,

E
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  #3  
Old 2005-04-29, 12:12 AM
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Re: Mp3 Minidisc or Neither?

the stripes/spikes are a little confusing but on the bright side they're probably not all that audible. I'm guessing this plays at a very low volume, right?

this is one of the weirdest-ever fa/sa combos. the fa looks okay, then the sa looks really weak... in the zoomed-out SA there's a bit in the middle that looks like it was pasted in from another source (marked ?! in the attachment). then there's those parts around it (arrows pointing) which have conspicuous flat tops at 4kHz. I'd love to see a couple 2-second SA shots taken approx. where I marked with green if you would be so kind...
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  #4  
Old 2005-04-29, 12:13 AM
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Re: Mp3 Minidisc or Neither?

also, fwiw, at a glance this looks like mono.
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  #5  
Old 2005-04-29, 06:14 AM
NoddingTurdFAN NoddingTurdFAN is offline
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Re: Mp3 Minidisc or Neither?

Hi Five -

Thanks for checking this out. Here are the zooms into those two areas. FWIW - this song is fairly quiet and is just a horn playing solo...then in those spikes the entire bands plays at a loud, shrill volume hence the spike.

In the waveform I see slight differences in the l & r channel but it may be mono...

Thanks!

E
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  #6  
Old 2005-04-29, 04:42 PM
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Re: Mp3 Minidisc or Neither?

yeah, now I see the differences. the weird thing about this track is that it's solo trumpet most of the time then the band comes blasting in for a short time... doesn't look normal but this is Mike Patton we're talking about here.

It looks lossless to me. The stripes could be from a misaligned tape deck, or some sort of hum during the transfer (a ground loop?).
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  #7  
Old 2005-04-29, 06:57 PM
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Re: Mp3 Minidisc or Neither?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
yeah, now I see the differences. the weird thing about this track is that it's solo trumpet most of the time then the band comes blasting in for a short time... doesn't look normal but this is Mike Patton we're talking about here.
sorry about the semi-OT, but Mr. Bungle - California is by a long shot the best (or rather "most interesting") album I've heard in a LONG time.

I wouldn't necessarily call the band-limited parts "conspicious", you never know what kind of instrument or sample might've caused such "fingerprints"..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
It looks lossless to me. The stripes could be from a misaligned tape deck, or some sort of hum during the transfer (a ground loop?).
I'd say tv recording (seen those in pretty much all tv sourced recordings I made myself). and yea, lossless.

by the way, "ground loop" at 8/16kHz? gee. ground loop = 50Hz or 60Hz and their respective harmonics.
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  #8  
Old 2005-04-30, 04:32 PM
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Re: Mp3 Minidisc or Neither?

I saw the Californa tour when they came to Toronto... they got delayed at the border for a couple hours and only ended up playing half an hour. The stage was decorated with plam trees and the guys were wearing shorts, t-shirts and leahs. At the time I was really impressed that they could play those impossible arrangments that sounded spliced together on the record.

Okay, so the ground loop guess was bad. The top stripe is in about the right place for a TV source, but methinks it would be darker in that case. Then there's that lower stripe at 8kHz... have you seen this on other TV recordings? If this is sourced from a broadcast, I would love to watch the video
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  #9  
Old 2005-04-30, 07:21 PM
NoddingTurdFAN NoddingTurdFAN is offline
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Re: Mp3 Minidisc or Neither?

I'm pretty much positive this isn't tv sourced. If it was, nobody in the Bungle community has known about it for ten years which is unlikely as this is a pretty widely circulated recording....

Hey Five - I just recently finished a 1st gen VHS to DVD transfer of the Toronto 99 show.... are you the taper?

E
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  #10  
Old 2005-04-30, 07:34 PM
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Re: Mp3 Minidisc or Neither?

Nope, I'm not the taper. I would really love to check that out, the best tapes are from shows you were at! Are you going to seed it here?
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  #11  
Old 2005-04-30, 08:12 PM
NoddingTurdFAN NoddingTurdFAN is offline
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Re: Mp3 Minidisc or Neither?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
Are you going to seed it here?
Unfortunately...probably not. My bandwidth has become limited so It's tremendously difficult for me to seed dvds. Audio isn't much of a prob but 3-4gig dvds has proven to be too much of a drain. I've mostly been trading dvd's via snail mail. Shoot me a pm if you'd like - ya got any Bungle or FNM boots?

E
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