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  #1  
Old 2008-09-12, 12:04 PM
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Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

Why does Traders Den ALLOW DVD sharing?

Which in the video world is the eqivelent(sp) of what MP3 is to Audio

Compressed....Lossy....Poor Quality

Rather than embracing the advances in codec and compression that have taken place over the last 20 years

I'm not saying stop sharing DVD's, it is a widely used format

But the reality is there are much better alternatives for high quality storage of Video data in smaller file sizes(H264 and Divx)

I can compress a 28 gig(2h14m) raw DV file to H264 or Divx and create a virtual clone of the original DV that will have a file size under 3 gigs

There are Divx comptible DVD players that will play these files to your TV and even programs to create DVD style menu's and chapters, and it will look better than ANY mpeg2 DVD would

If you are going to argue DVD is better because DVD is what we have always done then maybe you should throw your computer out the window and go back to using, telephones, facsimile machines and USPS mail for communication

Discuss
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  #2  
Old 2008-09-12, 03:25 PM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

Your point is neither completely true nor completely false.

Some truth, in that what may be an "inflated" file size of a DVD. Inflated is however not the same as lossy or compressed. Some part of the data inflation can be attributed to the supporting of the DVD to run as you are used to it, like insert and autostart + menu + other convenient extras. Another part of the inflated data are, indeed, renounceable/empty bits, containing no information actually used in the playback. Some DVDs are indeed compressed, especially ones generated from mini-dv masters. Better qualities would in such case be desirable.

I second the core and conclusion: The DVD is a miserable format. More disadvantages, other than just matters of compression. It is a typical example of music industry product/inventions with all its garbage aspects such as copy protection and regional restriction. Big BS. Likewise the audio CD & 16bit/44.1kHz. Both, DVD and CD, already history IMO.
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  #3  
Old 2008-09-12, 04:04 PM
Limulus Limulus is offline
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

itunes is the future then?

DVD(5) is VERY nice for video about 65min - analog or digital sources. with video bitrates around 8000 + LPCM audio you get kinda a clone of your DV tape.

its different with the higher definitions off course where you loose resolution when converting to DVD.

audio 16/44......well, this is still ok but such a fucking old standard from the early/mid 80s, i never got why the industry never pushed higher audio standards that much that consumers would follow immediately - exspecially in times where quality gets better and better over the years.
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  #4  
Old 2008-09-12, 04:05 PM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

Is DivX allowed? If so, I'll never upload a DVD again! Please will a mod here give the
thumb's up".
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  #5  
Old 2008-09-12, 08:40 PM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

Divx is not allowed
that is the rub

Limulus:

65m of video @ 8000kbps and lpcm audio would be somewhere around 5-6 gigs

i can get similar quality both audio and video in a file about 1/5th the size, that is the point

and even at 8000kbps i can see loss, especially in frame analyses but not wih h264 and divx at stream rates of 2500 and up

better quality, 1/3 the size, whats the problem?
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  #6  
Old 2008-09-12, 08:44 PM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

Video standards and any changes to them here are up to the Video Mods. They are currently writing up rules for HD Video on the site (first draft here - HD Video BitTorrent Seeding Policy). I don't think they will be changing things to allow DivX.


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  #7  
Old 2008-09-12, 10:29 PM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

I'm an audio guy, so the way I look at it is we're tied to the legacy 16/44.1 even tho I would guess that the majority of downloaded shows here never ever get burned to audio cdr.

24bit is starting to show up more and more... but not that much for some reason. I think a lot of ppl have trouble understanding new things, and get confused by 24bit.

so DVD is similar... we could just trade around raw unauthored files but we need some kind of an anchor here. blu ray discs will start showing up and wait until all those "EXCFUZE ME HOW TO BURN IT??? DOWNLOAD IS BROKEN" kind of posts.

so can you demonstrate this quality difference to impress the video cats here? I'm curious to see the diff.
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  #8  
Old 2008-09-13, 04:48 PM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five View Post

so can you demonstrate this quality difference to impress the video cats here? I'm curious to see the diff.

if divx can import into Vegas then i can do a side by side comparison of mpeg2 dvd and divx, i will chekc tonight
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  #9  
Old 2008-09-14, 06:47 AM
Limulus Limulus is offline
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

Quote:
Originally Posted by u2rulesmyworld View Post
Divx is not allowed
that is the rub

Limulus:

65m of video @ 8000kbps and lpcm audio would be somewhere around 5-6 gigs

i can get similar quality both audio and video in a file about 1/5th the size, that is the point

and even at 8000kbps i can see loss, especially in frame analyses but not wih h264 and divx at stream rates of 2500 and up

better quality, 1/3 the size, whats the problem?
65min lpcm normally should make it, but ok, lets take 63min with 8000video and lpcm. the result is an outmaxed DVD(5) around 4,3gb.
it surely depends on the source material and transfer but ANY encoding will suffer the outcome quality, period. the trick is to circulate only quality outmaxed dvds. dvds are as common as audio cdrs and very cheap, thats most likely the main problem for people not accepting "similar" quality on different or new or to-be-upgraded equipment.
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  #10  
Old 2008-09-14, 03:04 PM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

Just my 2c

DVD is cheap. DVD is common. DVD is fine.
CD is cheap. CD is common. CD if fine.

If we were to start doing things differently now either half the new works will be inaccessible to half or more of the community. Like said, even 24 bit has become a problem. And Blu-ray discs will cause more confusion, etc.

Why must everyone be so picky. Is it really gonna matter to put an old VHS onto an HD-DVD?! What, you want to be able to pick out more noise on the footage?

I personally think we should keep it where it's at until HD Formats are more mainstream. ($700+ blu-ray and high priced HD-DVD players alike are not in people's budget, let alone the media and burners for it. ESPECIALLY with the shitty economy.)

As for the DivX, people may start putting up LOSSY DivX and what do we do then? How will we really know?

Let's keep our standards for now.

(Ok, more like a $1 but, sorry...)
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  #11  
Old 2008-09-15, 06:28 AM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

Quote:
Originally Posted by u2rulesmyworld View Post

i can get similar quality both audio and video in a file about 1/5th the size, that is the point
Nope..that's the point!!

K_K
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  #12  
Old 2008-09-15, 06:39 AM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

DivX is not gonna happen here...simple as that
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  #13  
Old 2008-09-15, 11:43 AM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR.oner View Post
DivX is not gonna happen here...simple as that
We should go back to snail mail trading of VHS and VCD, unknown source Cdr and maybe even tape trading audio

ahhh those were the days

I havent seen one valid argument in this thread against Divx or H264, people just regurgitate the 'lossy' argument or the 'dvd is what everyone is familiar with' argument

The REALITY is that DVD mpeg2 is the LOSSY format based on a codec that is 15 or 20 years old

YES you can encode a 2 hour show at 8000kbps with lpcm audio onto a dual layer disc(8 gigs) and get VERY good quality audio and video as compared to the master source. The point is you can ALSO encode the same source to Divx, MKV or H264 at around 2 to 3 gigs(1 gig per hour or higher) and get Similar or better quality than the dvd version.

I started out using H264 for archival and backup purposes, Hard drives were so cheap and codecs had advanced that it just made sense versus storing mindv tapes that could be damaged or have play back issues

Now my complete U2 collection, over 100 DV masters and DV clones fit on a 500 gig hard drive, with 200 gigs to spare

Use an inexpensive cable to connect my laptop to my TV and I can watch any of them on my TV in virtually perfect quality
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  #14  
Old 2008-09-15, 11:46 AM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne View Post


(Hi Michael!)
(Hi Lynne!)

I liked your other avatar better

at least you still have it on U2T
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  #15  
Old 2008-09-15, 12:54 PM
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Re: Traders Den Sharing Standards (Video)

I have never watched a DivX video which is not pixelated on a TV larger than 30''. Tests demonstrates that there is no benefit of using DivX in comparison with other MPEG-4 encoders, which are part now of Blu-ray standard. H.264 is allowed here (high definition, BD), including .ts container.

Read about DivX legal stuff - it's idiotic hence it never get such commercial market as MPEG-x or H.264. I expect it will be dead after H.264 get more software support at the consumer level.
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