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  #1  
Old 2008-07-17, 05:45 AM
unclemeat's Avatar
unclemeat unclemeat is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Firewall and Fios

Hey all,

I've tried everything to get un-firewalled but to no avail. Anyone got Verizon FIOS? Here's my gory details:

Windows XP
Zonealarm firewall
utorrent with my port set to 50000
Actiontec MI424-WR rev. D router (Verizon)
Motorola VT2442-VD (Vonage router)


When I had Comcast, the Motorola router was my only issue. With help from portforward.com I got past that. But now that I've switched I'm stuck. I've tried the instructions on portforward.com but it ain't getting it done. Any other info I can provide if you need it.

Even firewalled I've hit 1.5Mbs/200Kbs so I know I've got good bandwidth. The problem is I can't connect to the other firewalled chuckleheads and it makes it virtually impossible to upload and improve my ratio. You gotta remember, most people are firewalled.

Thanks,
Ro-Ro

Last edited by unclemeat; 2008-07-17 at 05:50 AM.
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  #2  
Old 2008-07-17, 11:41 AM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
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Re: Firewall and Fios

What is your actual setup like between the cable into your house and your computer? You mention two routers, so do you go line-in > Actiontec > Motorola > you? Can you try connecting so you go line-in > Actiontec > you and see if you can get that to work? Then put the other router in, change the IP in the Actiontec to be the Motorola router and then put the PC IP into the Motorola router. There is a tutorial on portforward on how to go about portforwarding through two routers - did you take a look at it?
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  #3  
Old 2008-07-17, 01:45 PM
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direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: Firewall and Fios

i seriously doubt you are setup on two routers. If so, the only 'chucklehead' was the person that set your system up. That config is wrong.
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  #4  
Old 2008-07-18, 04:26 AM
unclemeat's Avatar
unclemeat unclemeat is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Re: Firewall and Fios

My setup now:
line-in > Actiontec > Motorola > PC

I can try dropping the Motorola but I don't see what that will do for me since I didn't have a problem with it before. Maybe because my old Comcast connection went through a Motorola cable modem and not another router. I guess that could be it. I didn't see the two router tutorial but I will look that up.

This line confuses me:
"Then put the other router in, change the IP in the Actiontec to be the Motorola router and then put the PC IP into the Motorola router."

I'm not concerned with improving speeds or anything like that, but if I'm firewalled I'm not connectable to 75% of the peers out there. And 9 times out of 10 they're the ones left at the end of a torrent. And torrent sites are all about ratios now. That being the case you'd think firewall info would be a first topic banner at the top of each page but it's buried under wacky headings like Technobabble. Education is key. Don't believe me? Pick any torrent on this site. Any one. Somewhere during it's thread someone is asking for a seed while there are still seeds available. And they'll be asking because they're firewalled and don't even know it. They see the seed in their client but can't connect and don't know why. So they figure he's not upping and we'll just get someone else in here.

So it just seems obvious to me that since the most important aspect of torrenting is firewalls, it would be the most important topic at torrent sites. But it's never mentioned. I'm not busting on just you guys, I'm generalizing out of frustration with this router (and my lack of basic knowledge). But I am generalizing accurately. I can't think of any torrent site that promotes smart torrenting. Just ratios.

Thanks for your help. I'll keep trying and if I can figger it out I'll let you know. I tried contacting mudshark88 who had a similar configuration but he's swapped out network cards and is stuck behind a firewall again too. Thought he might be able to help with this router.

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll keep you posted on what I figure out.

Ro-Ro
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  #5  
Old 2008-07-18, 06:37 AM
dude87 dude87 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Re: Firewall and Fios

I've got FiOS with an Actiontec router and an second router (so I can set up a DMZ and "hide" my home PCs a little better). What you need to do is first configure the Actiontec router's port forwarding. Assign a static IP to the Motorola router and forward your BitTorrent traffic to it on the Actiontec - follow the instructions at portforward.com to do this.

Then you have to configure the Motorola. Assign a static IP to your torrenting PC and then forward the BitTorrent traffic to it on the Motorola router - again, follow the instructions at portforward and you should be good to go. I've even had two different machines acting as BitTorrent clients behind the dual routers (using different ports for each).
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  #6  
Old 2008-07-18, 11:45 AM
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U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
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Re: Firewall and Fios

Port Forwarding Behind Two Routers

In regards to your comments about firewalling and how it should be more in-your-face.... we cover it in the FAQ and also on the front page under the firewalled stats and if you are firewalled, the link under your username also connects you to our FAQ. There is no sense in putting big huge firewalling signs up all over since 2/3 of the peers on the tracker are NOT firewalled and they really don't need to see the signs. Most people will figure that if they want help with something, they either need to look in the FAQ or go to the help forum (Technobabble), so I think we are pretty well covered there. However, if you have other suggestions, then we are open to listening to them. But, keep in mind that if you have already solved your firewalling problem (and as I said, 2/3 of the peers on the tracker have solved it), then you probably don't want firewalled links shoved in your face all the time.
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  #7  
Old 2008-07-20, 07:47 AM
unclemeat's Avatar
unclemeat unclemeat is offline
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Re: Firewall and Fios

Like I said, I was venting in frustration and not just at your site but torrent sites in general (and at my general ignorance). And I apologize for that. Yes I appreciate knowing I'm firewalled when I sign in here. Of course that only works if I'm torrenting at the same time.

Anyway, I fixed my problem by doing something no one suggested. I plugged my Motorola router into an auxiliary port on the Actiontec router and basically took it out of the loop. After that I was able to start from scratch with a new static IP address. I configured the Actiontec according to portforward.com and I'm good now.

So if you want a suggestion from me, here goes:

You ask for specific info on hardware and setup, look for similar situations to mine. I didn't need to have go through my Vonage router. Seems simple enough but no one mentioned it. I do understand others have to go through a multi-router setup, I didn't. Maybe it's something that could be added to the FAQ under Vonage or VOIP users. It would have saved me a lot of trouble and others may be in the same boat. You have to remember your level of computer experience is not everyone's level. Also the golden rule, KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. I may be a dope for not doing the obvious in the first place, but I do know to look for help when I'm in over my head.

Anyway, thanks for your help and again I didn't mean to offend.
Ro-Ro
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  #8  
Old 2008-07-20, 05:17 PM
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direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: Firewall and Fios

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemeat View Post
Like I said, I was venting in frustration and not just at your site but torrent sites in general (and at my general ignorance). And I apologize for that. Yes I appreciate knowing I'm firewalled when I sign in here. Of course that only works if I'm torrenting at the same time.

Anyway, I fixed my problem by doing something no one suggested. I plugged my Motorola router into an auxiliary port on the Actiontec router and basically took it out of the loop. After that I was able to start from scratch with a new static IP address. I configured the Actiontec according to portforward.com and I'm good now.

So if you want a suggestion from me, here goes:

You ask for specific info on hardware and setup, look for similar situations to mine. I didn't need to have go through my Vonage router. Seems simple enough but no one mentioned it. I do understand others have to go through a multi-router setup, I didn't. Maybe it's something that could be added to the FAQ under Vonage or VOIP users. It would have saved me a lot of trouble and others may be in the same boat. You have to remember your level of computer experience is not everyone's level. Also the golden rule, KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. I may be a dope for not doing the obvious in the first place, but I do know to look for help when I'm in over my head.

Anyway, thanks for your help and again I didn't mean to offend.
Ro-Ro
if one of the mods will unhide my early post in this thread. it would be appreciated & unclemeat might enjoy it.

using two routers on a home network is ridiculous & doesnt help or hide anything. (also dude87 - the DMZ puts your computer outside the firewall - fully exposed)
normally, the only time you would have a few routers locally on a network is to bridge large segmented corporate networks.

glad it worked out unclemeat. try not to get so bent out of shape when asking for free advice with your problems.
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  #9  
Old 2008-07-20, 11:06 PM
dude87 dude87 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Re: Firewall and Fios

Quote:
using two routers on a home network is ridiculous & doesnt help or hide anything. (also dude87 - the DMZ puts your computer outside the firewall - fully exposed)
I don't believe you're correct on this. I have one router facing the outside world. That router than has a range of internal IP addresses (i.e. in the 192.168.x.x range, not routable on the Internet). One of the wired ports on that router is connected to a second router which is assigned a static IP address (actually, that's the only device connected to the Internet-facing router). That second router also has a range of internal IP addresses. I connect (wirelessly and via wired Ethernet) all of my home machines to that router.

In order for someone from the Internet to reach an internal PC they would first have to navigate through the externally-facing router and then to the internally facing router (and finally to any of my PCs that have data they were after or just to hijack it as a spam factory or whatever). I allow guest access to the Internet-facing router (although I use WPA encryption - friends have to get the key from me to use it), I completely hide the "internal" router. I also forward my BitTorrent ports through the two routers (currently that's the only protocol I forward).

When I look at my router logs I can see the standard array of probes, etc. on the externally-facing router, I don't see any on the internal router. And my PC firewalls show zero outside attempts at access so I'm not sure why you believe I have my PCs completely outside the firewall. There are two layers of defense between my home PCs and the outside world.

Is this overkill and probably unnecessary for a home network? Undoubtedly, but I already had a WiFi router when I got FiOS service and they gave me the Actiontec router (which is required to use their multi-room DVR). I set it up for kicks and because it cost me nothing, I was perfectly content safety-wise with my previous single router configuration.
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  #10  
Old 2008-07-21, 12:46 AM
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direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: Firewall and Fios

what you have on each router is NAT (network address translation)
this is what keeps your internal nodes on private IP's & not on public IP addresses.
between NAT & having ports closed (firewalled) your systems are fine.
when using two routers - you've created a bridge of two separate networks.
thats all - it doesnt offer 'double NAT security' & it doesnt offer 'double firewall security'
in fact, all its done is add extra information into the IP packet headers for routing.
an open port is an open port - no matter how many routers its behind.
its not standard practise because it offers zero security benefits. you're just changing the routing path inside your home network & it may even slow traffic more.
now if you had a computer acting as a router that could change IP traffic to IPX traffic..that would be a security benefit & it was thought at one time to be good idea. but it isnt & no one does that either.
in your earlier post you mentioned using the DMZ - and in many home routers the DMZ is used to 'disable the NAT' & put that machine on the external IP address - naked on the net (you would do this if you were hosting out... like a public web server).

dont take it personally, cause its not meant that way. im just sayin'
I was somewhat concerned you felt you were safe using a DMZ..
and in your config with two routers.. if you use the DMZ.. you're just putting the machine outside the second router - behind the first..which makes the two router config nonexistent - cause then you aren't even using it.

Last edited by direwolf-pgh; 2008-07-21 at 12:52 AM.
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