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  #1  
Old 2005-04-13, 11:03 PM
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ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

Are flac fingerprints and shntool md5 and st5 all the same thing? I'm getting the same hash for them all. So is it redundant on a flac show to make fingerprints and an st5? And if an shntool md5 and an st5 are the same thing, what's the best way to name it, with the st5 extension or shntool-md5.txt?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 2005-04-13, 11:27 PM
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Re: ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

Um, yeah, kinda.

They all give you the same hash, as you can see. That's the whole idea. We want to have one fingerprint/hash that will be identical whether a show is in flac/shn/wav/aiff/whatever format.

So, yes, fingerprints and st5s are the same. The thing is, no one has come up with a standard extension for shntool md5s, so people are coming up with their own. shntool and xACT make them .txt files (I think), but TLH makes them st5 files and Stephen's makes them something else. But, they are all the same.
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  #3  
Old 2005-04-14, 12:36 AM
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Re: ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

I wonder then why when I make ffp with shntool it happens almost instantaneously and when I make shntool md5/st5 it takes a little while... ?

So really I just need to make the ffp then anyway I guess, so I'll save some time. This shit is starting to really take a long time to archive stuff with all this checking and fixing and converting... why do I listen to Stephen and Jamie???
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  #4  
Old 2005-04-14, 12:48 AM
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Re: ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

Flac calculates the fingerprint as it doing the encoding and stores the md5 checksum in its metadata header. When you make an ffp it is simply retrieving that value (real quick). Shntool-md5 takes longer because it must decode the file and calculate the md5 of the decoded data.
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  #5  
Old 2005-04-14, 12:54 AM
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Re: ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by feralicious
I wonder then why when I make ffp with shntool it happens almost instantaneously and when I make shntool md5/st5 it takes a little while... ?
I'm little confused by what you mean by 'make ffp with shntool' but basically there are two ways to get the footprint of flac files: take the hash stored in the meta tags of the flac file itself stored at compression time, or actually examine the audio data and regenerate the md5 checksum, which takes time as it looks at those rather large files.

flac's metaflac command does the former, so it is very quick; shntool actually generates a new md5 so it takes longer. shntool's method is technically a safer way to do things, because it is conceivable that a flac file could be corrupt in a fashion where the stored footprint is still extractable from the meta tags, but the audio data has been changed somehow.
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  #6  
Old 2005-04-14, 03:28 AM
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Re: ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzbo
I'm little confused by what you mean by 'make ffp with shntool' ...
This is what I mean:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flac Fingerprints
previously posted by uhclem:

I use a simple batch file to create the fingerprint. It's simple because you just drag 'n' drop the folder containing your new flacs onto the batch file and voila it produces a fingerprint file for you in the folder. Here's the batch file I use:

@echo off
%~d1 & cd "%~1"
for %%F in (*.flac) do metaflac --show-md5sum --with-filename "%%F" >> "%~n1-ffp.txt"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It makes a flac ffp.txt file in the folder.
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  #7  
Old 2005-04-14, 06:16 AM
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Re: ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by feralicious
This is what I mean:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flac Fingerprints
previously posted by uhclem:

I use a simple batch file to create the fingerprint. It's simple because you just drag 'n' drop the folder containing your new flacs onto the batch file and voila it produces a fingerprint file for you in the folder. Here's the batch file I use:

@echo off
%~d1 & cd "%~1"
for %%F in (*.flac) do metaflac --show-md5sum --with-filename "%%F" >> "%~n1-ffp.txt"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It makes a flac ffp.txt file in the folder.
That batch file doesn't use shntool
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  #8  
Old 2005-04-14, 09:54 AM
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Re: ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beleaguered
Flac calculates the fingerprint as it doing the encoding and stores the md5 checksum in its metadata header. When you make an ffp it is simply retrieving that value (real quick). Shntool-md5 takes longer because it must decode the file and calculate the md5 of the decoded data.
This is correct... I like the extension .st5 but shntool-md5.txt is fine too so long as the same stuff is in the file. Same goes for the .ffp or ffp.txt extensions for FLAC fingerprints (I prefer .ffp). When you generate a .ffp with TLH or FLAC frontend, the output is simply copied from the headers, when you generate an .st5 the checksums are calculated on the spot from the audio data on the spot (and thus takes longer). The most tedious (and secure) thing to do is to create an .ffp, then an .st5, check that the two are the same (this verifies that the header checksum matches the audio), then you can even run the "test" function from FLAC frontend which also does the same thing (extracts the checksum from the header and compares a newly generated checksum from the audio data to this).

It is adequate to generate a .ffp (if there isn't one already) and drop the FLACs in FLAC frontend and run a test to make sure the data isn't corrupt.

So what you really need to do when you get a show is:

-run a test using FLAC frontend (or a batch file, etc )
-run a shntool len check (for SBEs, also to check the audio is 44.1kHz/16bit, etc.)
-have a peek at a couple of the files in a WAV editor like Audacity/Audition checking the fa and sa to see if the source looks suspicious (i.e. lossy-sourced).
-while you've got the files open in a WAV editor zoom in on the beginning and the end of the tracks to look for any TAO/SBE gaps printed into the audio that could not be detected by a shntool len check.
-generate a .ffp (if there isn't one already, works with FLAC only)
-generate a .st5 (manditory for SHN & APE, optional for FLAC)
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  #9  
Old 2005-04-14, 11:36 AM
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Re: ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmonk66
That batch file doesn't use shntool
Oh.

Guess I'll be needing that "Get Out of Jail Free" card for myself then.
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  #10  
Old 2005-04-14, 11:53 AM
pmonk pmonk is offline
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Re: ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

Did I ever send you the batch file I use to create .st5. Works like a charm!!!

I agree with Five - .st5 are the best way to go.
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  #11  
Old 2005-04-14, 05:26 PM
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Re: ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmonk66
Did I ever send you the batch file I use to create .st5. Works like a charm!!!

I agree with Five - .st5 are the best way to go.
You sent me one but I don't think it was an shntool one, was it? Anyway, I have one and I make it save like this: nickcave1998-01-01.st5.txt
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  #12  
Old 2005-04-14, 07:10 PM
pmonk pmonk is offline
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Re: ffp = shntool md5 = st5 ???

@echo off
%~d1 & cd "%~1"
shntool md5 *.flac > "%~n1.st5"
exit
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