The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?
 

Notices

Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2008-03-15, 03:01 AM
darkside02's Avatar
darkside02 darkside02 is offline
115.82 GB/65.22 GB/0.56
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
No idea about lossy or lossless

Hi there,

I use Gspot to make sure a dvd is a real dvd (not wmv or avi sourced), to check the format, and all that stuff, and I kinda understand the rest of the info.

A few weeks ago I started trading and downloading FLAC and SHN shows, but I got NO idea how to know whether a show is mp3 sourced or not.

Ive read something about a spectral test or something, but I dont understand, so Iīm asking for help. Would anyone please tell me step by step how to find out if the discs I just got are lossy or lossless?

thanks in advance
__________________
.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2008-03-15, 03:16 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

open a few of the threads in this forum, especially the ones stuck at the top with links included. you can upload FLAC samples here, just go to an ftp replacement site like rapidshare or megaupload or one of the gazillion others & post the download link here. choose smaller tracks or if you're able create 10-20 second samples. After we look at a few together you'll start to get the idea.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2008-03-15, 08:59 AM
jaygs's Avatar
jaygs jaygs is offline
360.03 GB/293.19 GB/0.81
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

I assume you have a tool that can show things in spectral mode. If so, just take a wav file and encode it in MP3 at 128 kbps. Then open them both in spectral mode. The mp3 file will have no "color" at the top of the spectrum -- higher frequencies. Old, low quality, but lossless files will have some color at the top, but it will be "faded" because it's just the hiss. It looks a little like old fashioned television "snow"
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2008-03-15, 10:01 AM
JGH1 JGH1 is offline
99.43 GB/115.78 GB/1.16
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

I believe I have an easier fix for this problem rather than looking at "snow" -

Audacity can do the job easily (free program...go to audacity.sourceforge.net). Open the file, highlight a section and go to the "analyze" pull-down menu, and select "Plot Spectrum". A window plotting the frequency response will pop up. If the file is mp3 sourced, it will have nothing above approx. 15kHz. If there IS frequency response plotted above that point, it's not an mp3.

John
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2008-03-15, 01:12 PM
darkside02's Avatar
darkside02 darkside02 is offline
115.82 GB/65.22 GB/0.56
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

it was like 1am when I left the message so I guess I forgot a few things.

I have NO IDEA about how this works, I received three audio cds, so do I have to first convert them to wav? or to flac? with which software? I have Adobe Audition, Nero, Windows Media PLayer, FLAC Frontend (Which I still donīt know how to use very well), and Traderīs Little Help. After doing that, whatīs next?

sorry, Iīm still learning and trying to understand "encoding", "decoding", the "khz thing", etc.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2008-03-15, 04:10 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

first you need EAC (exactaudiocopy.de) to get a secure rip off the audio cdrs. the other ripping progs don't check for errors, at least not the ones you've got listed.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2008-03-15, 07:43 PM
darkside02's Avatar
darkside02 darkside02 is offline
115.82 GB/65.22 GB/0.56
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

done, Iīve ripped wav files using EAC. Now..should I make a 10-15 sec sample and uploading it to a free host?

thanks for the help yīall
__________________
.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2008-03-16, 04:59 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

yup. just be sure not to do anything funky to it when you make the sample (if you use audacity you have to check the settings are 16bit/44.1kHz first), encode to FLAC, upload it and post up a link here. if you're uncertain just choose the smallest track.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2008-03-16, 01:36 PM
darkside02's Avatar
darkside02 darkside02 is offline
115.82 GB/65.22 GB/0.56
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

the smallest file is 38mb..Iīm uploading it at the moment, just wondering: For ripping a cd Iīll always use EAC from now on. Is Traderīs Little Helper any good at encoding to FLAC? What level should I use? 0 is Fast, 5 is Default, and 8 is Best.

I donīt have audacity btw
__________________
.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2008-03-16, 02:04 PM
darkside02's Avatar
darkside02 darkside02 is offline
115.82 GB/65.22 GB/0.56
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

http://rapidshare.de/files/38846710/...ack07.wav.html

here it is

thanks a lot really
__________________
.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #11  
Old 2008-03-16, 03:24 PM
jaygs's Avatar
jaygs jaygs is offline
360.03 GB/293.19 GB/0.81
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGH1 View Post
I believe I have an easier fix for this problem rather than looking at "snow" -

Audacity can do the job easily (free program...go to audacity.sourceforge.net). Open the file, highlight a section and go to the "analyze" pull-down menu, and select "Plot Spectrum". A window plotting the frequency response will pop up. If the file is mp3 sourced, it will have nothing above approx. 15kHz. If there IS frequency response plotted above that point, it's not an mp3.

John
Not true about having nothing above 15KHz. If it was MP3'd at 320kbps it will have content all the way to 20KHz!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #12  
Old 2008-03-16, 04:09 PM
darkside02's Avatar
darkside02 darkside02 is offline
115.82 GB/65.22 GB/0.56
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

as I have nothing to do I played a bit with adobe audition and hereīs what I did:

__________________
.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #13  
Old 2008-03-17, 07:07 AM
JGH1 JGH1 is offline
99.43 GB/115.78 GB/1.16
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

My mistake, jay...forget my comment.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #14  
Old 2008-03-17, 03:05 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

from what I can see in that pic darkside it is lossy & not dvd-quality at all. lower than average mp3 encoding setting to boot!

I'll download the wav from work tomorrow where I've got a faster net connection. also next time would be better to compress to FLAC, which keeps all the audio data identical but brings the size (and upload/download time) down to 50-60%

ps small note to any audacity users you have to set the spectral to dispaly to 22050 as the upper limit in the settings to see something similar to what audition produces.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #15  
Old 2008-03-24, 01:34 AM
darkside02's Avatar
darkside02 darkside02 is offline
115.82 GB/65.22 GB/0.56
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Re: No idea about lossy or lossless

damn it, I knew something wasnīt rite

thanks for all your help
__________________
.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Lossy or Lossless? - quadrophenia Lossy or Lossless? 14 2013-10-04 04:49 AM
Lossy or Lossless? - quadrophenia Lossy or Lossless? 3 2008-08-20 02:20 PM
lossy or lossless - quadrophenia Lossy or Lossless? 1 2007-09-26 12:17 PM
Lossy or Lossless?!?!?!?!?!!? - tonygx30 Lossy or Lossless? 9 2007-09-06 12:53 PM
Lossy or Lossless?!?!?!?!?!!? Pt.3 - tonygx30 Lossy or Lossless? 3 2007-09-04 11:41 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:38 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts