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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2007-11-16, 04:51 PM
xcv111
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Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

This is the spectral view image of the Finnish Broadcast Company's (YLE) cable FM broadcast of Gnarls Barkley's gig at the Provinssirock Festival 2006.

According to Cyber College: "Since both ends of the 20-20,000 Hz range represent rather extreme limits, the more common range used for FM radio and TV is from 50 to 15,000 Hz. (AM radio falls significantly short of this range.)" The frequency response of this cable FM recording of mine is possibly up from 20 Hz (not really reaching down that low?) and cutting off around app. 16,000 Hz - the app. 16,000 Hz cut-off being quite usual for the FM radio broadcasts as mentioned above by Cyber College. The carrier signal is around app. 19,000 Hz or even a bit higher.

Am I on the right track? This cable FM recording of mine isn't lossy?

http://www.cybercollege.com/frtv/frtv017.htm
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Gnarls Barkley's Spectral View.jpg
( 113.7 KB, 115 views)
 
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  #2  
Old 2007-11-16, 05:02 PM
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

the 19kHz is the stereo pilot tone. Tells the receiver to build stereo channels from the composite signal. that other crap is probably info the cable company spikes on to get data from place to place.. could be guide data chunks, etc

As far as digital compression goes, can you repost it in about a 3-4 second slice?
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  #3  
Old 2007-11-16, 05:11 PM
xcv111
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg
the 19kHz is the stereo pilot tone. Tells the receiver to build stereo channels from the composite signal. that other crap is probably info the cable company spikes on to get data from place to place.. could be guide data chunks, etc

As far as digital compression goes, can you repost it in about a 3-4 second slice?
This is quite much all I can say about it right now to your reply: all the original information of the gig recorded. No cable FM digital involved. It's all cable FM analog.


Gnarls Barkley
Provinssirock Festival, Seinäjoki, Finland
18th of June 2006

Source: Finnish Broadcast Company (YLE), Radio X3M channel (analog) > Harman/Kardon TU940 > Yamaha CDR-HD1500 > PC
Lineage: Cable FM (analog) > HD > CD-RW > EAC (secure) > Wav > Cool Pro 2 > Wav > FLAC Frontend > Flac (level 8)

01 - Radio X3M Live jingle
02 - Who Cares?
03 - Go-Go Gadget Gospel
04 - The Boogie Monster
05 - Just A Thought
06 - St. Elsewhere
07 - Gone Daddy Gone
08 - The Last Time
09 - Feng Shui
10 - Necromancer
11 - There's An End [The Greenhornes cover]
12 - Smiley Faces
13 - Transformer
14 - Crazy
15 - Storm Coming
16 - Radio X3M Live jingle

Notes:
I fixed few clicks, a small flaw at 2:xx.xxx on "Just A Little Thought", did the track slitting, a little volume tweaking and fade in/out in the beginning/end of the show. Flac files are aligned on sector boundaries. I let the Radio X3M Live program jingles be in the beginning and the end, because they continue slightly right into the music and therefore there wasn't much room for cutting them decently off.

According to the netsite of the Radio X3M this Gnarls Barkley's gig ought to be songwisely complete.

Have fun.
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  #4  
Old 2007-11-16, 05:47 PM
xcv111
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

OK.
Here's app. 10 sec. Gnarls Barkley sample for you.

Should it be longer?
Attached Files
File Type: flac Gnarls Barkley - Sample.flac
( 1.19 MB, 9 views)
 
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  #5  
Old 2007-11-16, 07:06 PM
xcv111
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg
that other crap is probably info the cable company spikes on to get data from place to place.. could be guide data chunks, etc
Possibly not. I've seen the same stuff when this household was receiving them fine tune tunes flying around in the air by the antenna.
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  #6  
Old 2007-11-16, 07:14 PM
xcv111
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcv111
...possibly up from 20 Hz (not really reaching down that low?)...
I'm just curious enough to ask you, how low do you think this recording is reaching?
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  #7  
Old 2007-11-16, 09:29 PM
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

you'll have to do a frequency analysis with a logarithmic scale to determine that.
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  #8  
Old 2007-11-16, 10:41 PM
xcv111
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg
you'll have to do a frequency analysis with a logarithmic scale to determine that.
Oh yeah? How about you fix it? A logarithmic scale? Are you kidding me? I've just already given you the spectral view and the sound sample as you requested? And now you want some logarithmic scale? What's next?

Ps. Please. Could you hand this thing over to Five. He seems to know some a shit about something.
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  #9  
Old 2007-11-17, 01:25 AM
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcv111
Oh yeah? How about you fix it? A logarithmic scale? Are you kidding me? I've just already given you the spectral view and the sound sample as you requested? And now you want some logarithmic scale? What's next?

Ps. Please. Could you hand this thing over to Five. He seems to know some a shit about something.
the nice man is trying to help you
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  #10  
Old 2007-11-17, 02:18 AM
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcv111
Oh yeah? How about you fix it? A logarithmic scale? Are you kidding me? I've just already given you the spectral view and the sound sample as you requested? And now you want some logarithmic scale? What's next?

Ps. Please. Could you hand this thing over to Five. He seems to know some a shit about something.
Oh dear.
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  #11  
Old 2007-11-17, 02:52 AM
Tubular
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

How low it goes doesn't affect whether you can seed it or not. They find out if it is lossy by looking at the high frequencies. If they don't see any compression artifacts or evidence in the highs, go ahead and seed it.
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  #12  
Old 2007-11-17, 04:27 AM
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

the 10 sec sample you posted won't decode [unparseable stream]
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  #13  
Old 2007-11-17, 08:18 AM
xcv111
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubular
How low it goes doesn't affect whether you can seed it or not. They find out if it is lossy by looking at the high frequencies. If they don't see any compression artifacts or evidence in the highs, go ahead and seed it.
Yup. I was only curious how low it goes. Of course to get a right answer is straight from the horse's mouth, in this case the Finnish Broadcast Company's technical support.
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  #14  
Old 2007-11-17, 08:27 AM
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcv111
Oh yeah? How about you fix it? A logarithmic scale? Are you kidding me?
It takes about 5 seconds with the software you are using.
Quote:
I've just already given you the spectral view and the sound sample as you requested? And now you want some logarithmic scale? What's next?

Ps. Please. Could you hand this thing over to Five. He seems to know some a shit about something.
ok, I've helped you for the last time (at your request). The frequency range of the recording has very little to do with determining lossy compression. It's only used as an initial indicator - and certainly not the low end of the spectrum.

You ASKED about the bottom end of the range, so I told you how to see it. You have the correct tools, just not the correct attitude. Feel free to continue to not know.

You ASKED to post the spectrum so we could give you an opinion about it. The time scale you posted isn't optimal for determining that, so I asked you for a 3 second slice - which you have yet to post.
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  #15  
Old 2007-11-17, 08:27 AM
xcv111
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Re: Gnarls Barkley's spectral view

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR.oner
the 10 sec sample you posted won't decode [unparseable stream]
Hmmm...
Interesting. I was asked for a 3-4 second slice. I gave you 10 sec. slice. And that won't decode? What might be the reason for that? And how to go on further if you can't say straight from the spectral view image if it's lossy or not?
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