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  #16  
Old 2007-11-08, 02:40 AM
VonOben VonOben is offline
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
industry standard for over 20 years might contradict what you're saying.
Nope, it can't. And I can explain why, if you want me to. (It's an interesting story although I don't have all the details.)

If you don't want me to, let's just get back to sleep. (Well, off the work actually.)
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  #17  
Old 2007-11-08, 11:05 AM
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

i have few electronics that are considered favorites.
but this piece of equipment fascinated me.
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  #18  
Old 2007-11-08, 11:07 AM
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

this would be the second item that i really enjoyed.

..now everything today just seems more of the same.
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  #19  
Old 2007-11-08, 11:18 AM
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh
i have few electronics that are considered favorites.
but this piece of equipment fascinated me.
Do you still have that one? I have a IIc at home. and a Tandy 1000 and a 1000ex. I've got the tape drives and everything.


Just waiting for the Smithsonian to call any day now. Maybe I'll fire one up tonight in celebration of this thread.
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  #20  
Old 2007-11-08, 11:19 AM
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direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

as for software.. Mosaic.
-going from terminal to GUI was really cool.

using Peak (multitrack software on a mac) for the first time was a rush too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltman
Do you still have that one?
nope
Ive seen them on ebay for a few $$$.. but figured I was just being nostalgic.
Using an emulator & some old text adventures confirmed this notion.
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  #21  
Old 2007-11-08, 11:37 AM
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonOben
Nope, it can't. And I can explain why, if you want me to. (It's an interesting story although I don't have all the details.)

If you don't want me to, let's just get back to sleep. (Well, off the work actually.)
if you feel like it, tell me all about it. almost every pro studio photo I see at the mixer, there's those NS-10s sitting there. Seems strange that you're saying you can only hear 100Hz and nothing above or below
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  #22  
Old 2007-11-08, 12:12 PM
VonOben VonOben is offline
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
if you feel like it, tell me all about it. almost every pro studio photo I see at the mixer, there's those NS-10s sitting there. Seems strange that you're saying you can only hear 100Hz and nothing above or below
Well ok, I'll keep it short. No need to get into very long arguments about the NS-10.

First of all, it has a very, very non-linear response. For some measurements see page 2, on the right, here: http://www.lts.a.se/artiklar/YamahaNS10.pdf

Worse, the response vary extremly with the angle. What sounds right sitting one way sounds very different if you move your head a couple of inches. (Lack of integration between the tweeter and woofer makes this happen, as well as a very bad cross-over.)

Even worser, the non-linear response is very different from almost any other speaker. Some argue that these reflects what most people use at home, but it's the other way around, really. They sound like nothing else.

There are other cons as well, but these will do.

The most common way to tweak these bastards are by letting a napkin hang in front of the tweeter, that should speak for itself.

Now, one thing that is (or,really, were) good about these boxes are that most studios have (had) them, that way you worked with familiar equipment.

So, how did these become popular? Party it's the swedish public service radio's fault! They, SR, had (have?) a very good reputation in the world for creating top notch quality program material. SR were about to replace all of their studio monitors (that's alot) in the late 70s, and arranged a sort of competition for loudspeaker manufacturers. The NS-10 won this, and were placed in all of SRs studios. Now, you might wonder, why did SR choose them if they aren't any good?

Well, Yamaha knew about SRs reputation, and gave SR all the speakers _for free_! Something they haven't regret.

PS. On page 3 in that linked PDF, on the left, is the schematics on how to build a NS-10 "simulator" if you want your ordinary, reasonable flat, speakers to sound like the NS-10. It can, unfortunately, do miracles with alot of 80s material since it corrects for the mistakes* that were made in the mix due to the use of the NS-10. Eurytmics is a good example.

Anyhow, the bottom line here... if you like them, use them. Be happy! But keep in mind that there are nothing "transparent" about them.

* = the simulator can ofcourse not simulate the bad integration between the elements.
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  #23  
Old 2007-11-08, 01:09 PM
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

hey thanks so much for posting that's great info. I can at least try to get the room almost flat (maybe use some other speakers for tweaking that ).

a friend of mine recommended them to me, and now that you mentioned it I recall him telling me about the spike in the mids and generally uneven response. he said legend has it that if you can make it sound good on NS-10s it will sound good on anything (ok except for bass you can't check that on these obviously). I know you'll disagree but that kind of a legend/myth is the kind I have to investigate I'll give them a chance and if they don't work out I should be able to get about the same that I paid for them on eBay and buy something else that's better. what is your recommendation for replacement near field monitors for studio use, then?

I wish I could read more of that pdf... for the circuit there, the resistors with values without the "k" appearing are ohms? the rest is really straightforward.

ps your english is quite good, really
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  #24  
Old 2007-11-08, 03:02 PM
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

Finnish Broadcast Company (YLE) have mostly Genelec speakers as monitors. Those babies might be a decent choise. Of course only if you are prepared put some real money down.
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  #25  
Old 2007-11-08, 03:29 PM
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

haha ... I was mentioning them a few posts back

something like $5,000USD, right?

I've heard them and also the mackie clones. for some reason I'm not keen on them at all, but may have to reconsider. They are awesome for impressing clients because anything you play on them sounds better than it really is
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  #26  
Old 2007-11-08, 03:57 PM
xcv111
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
something like $5,000USD, right?
Yup. Genlec speakers are pretty costly. Possibly also because of being active speakers with built-in amplification.
Quote:
I've heard them and also the mackie clones. for some reason I'm not keen on them at all, but may have to reconsider. They are awesome for impressing clients because anything you play on them sounds better than it really is
Yup. I was quite impressed when I heard them - made The Cramps sound like Pink Floyd. It's quite essential to have top notch speakers when listening to The Cramps.

And they are great interior decoration solution as well - they are pretty good looking with them sexy curved and rounded edges.
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  #27  
Old 2007-11-08, 04:52 PM
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

YES
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  #28  
Old 2007-11-08, 07:17 PM
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

i like the Alesis M1s for inexpensive, near-field monitors...great bass response when working with LF-heavy music [especially hip hop, jungle/DnB, etc], and extremely flat response...obviously not the greatest monitors in the world, but at under $500 a pair, they give most monitors twice the price a run for their money

here's an interesting article about em, with comparisons to the Genelec 1031s and the NS-10s
http://mixguides.com/studiomonitors/...lesis-m1-1099/
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  #29  
Old 2007-11-09, 09:39 AM
VonOben VonOben is offline
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
he said legend has it that if you can make it sound good on NS-10s it will sound good on anything (ok except for bass you can't check that on these obviously). I know you'll disagree but that kind of a legend/myth is the kind I have to investigate
Yea, I'm familiar with that legend. I can see the point while I still disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
what is your recommendation for replacement near field monitors for studio use, then?
The ones I use, although they are difficult to buy. They are called Ino Audio piP:

There are a comercial version of these aswell, called Guru QM10. Much, much more expensive but also much easier to buy. Their ancestor, the piP, are performing equally but can for ideological reasons only be bought on location in Stockholm.

Here's a second opinion: http://www.avguide.com/news/2007/10/...ggest-bargain/

The piP's are much cheaper, around 4200SEK (ca 320, $665), if you assembly them yourself, wich takes about an hour. The downside is ofcourse that you'll have to find someone in Stockholm that can send them to you.

With -3dB at 34Hz, they are really unbeleivable. I would not trade these for anything else that I've heard, besides their bigger brother pi60s. (But that's a leap up to 3200, $6700... Not to mention the commercial version of the pi60s: Guru QM40...) Picture of pi60s: http://www.minhembio.com/bild/77851.jpg

I think the Genelecs are okey, but not really blistering. We have an expensive 5.1 Genelec setup at work and it's nice to pump out Iron Maidens DVD Rock in Rio while watching the show on the 315" Hitachi video wall... but I wouldn't trade my piP's for that speaker setup. (There's a factor x37 in price difference.)

B&W produces some nice speakers. Carlsson are great but not for monitoring and can only be found second hand. NHT makes some really good loudspeakers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
I wish I could read more of that pdf... for the circuit there, the resistors with values without the "k" appearing are ohms? the rest is really straightforward.
Yes, that's Ohm. Without any prefix. I'll check if there's any english version of that article, otherwise I could try to make a quick n' dirty translation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
ps your english is quite good, really
Thank you. Partly that's because we do not dub movies/tv-programs here.
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  #30  
Old 2007-11-09, 11:33 AM
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Re: Your Favorite Equipment & Software

PC is home made (from a friend) with Intel Core 2 Duo 6600, 2 gig RAM, with 250 gig and 400 gig internal hard drives; Lite-On LH-20A1P & Lite-On SHM-165P6S dvd burners (the 165P6S is on it's last legs after thousands of burns)
Firefox for browsing, I mainly use Foobar2000 for pc playback and ripping mp3's for my Creativer Muvo1000 2 gig mp3 player

The problem with my Lite-On burners is they cannot be set for offset correction, I have tried and they do not have a consistent offset

Home stereo: Snell Type A speakers (made in 1977, purchased used for a steal at $1300 in 1982, factory updated in 2000), Counterpoint SA7 tube pre-amp, Audire Forte amp, Oracle Alexandria turntable with a Grado Ruby cartridge. Additional equipment for surround sound (video only - prefer audio in 2 channel) NAD 916 6 channel amp bridged to 3 channels (2 rear and center front), Fosgate surround processor (outdated, need to replace someday as only up to Dolby Pro Logic); Sony cd & dvd players (nothing special here)
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