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  #31  
Old 2005-03-16, 04:57 PM
buzzy
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

A few more thoughts -

For flac and shn, data DVDs are a good way to go because of the capacity. You could spend a lot of time messing around with par2, but it's complicated enough that I really couldn't recommend it to many users. As it stands, it doesn't handle files and directories in a useful way.

Practically speaking, I'd say you're better off burning on good DVDR media, and keeping them away from bright light and heat and humidity.

Worst case, all the other mad music fans out there are like a huge backup system for you. That's why tapers and hoarders better share everything they've got stashed away - we're your backup system, people! If anyone doubts that, just look at all the seeds that are STG shows coming back around.

Ideally you want to store the discs in an archival sleeve. That generally means no vinyl, but polypropylene / mylar is hard to find. If you buy in quantity, Univenture makes some stuff, also check out the multidisc products. Others sell their sleeves too - you can one version from MicroCenter for just $8 for 100.

When they make a poly sleeve that can hold all the graphics from a commercial CD at a reasonable price, I'll be seriously tempted to chuck all the jewel boxes I have, since I'm out of space to store CDs.

Or you can keep them on the spindles.

All video DVDs are essentially data DVDs - it's not like data CD, VCD, and CD Audio, with progressively weaker formats. So in theory if you burn a good copy on good media and store it well, it should last reasonably well. DVDs have stronger error detection and correction than data CDs.

But you'll still probably need the big backup system - other fans - at some point.

Last edited by buzzy; 2005-03-16 at 05:03 PM.
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  #32  
Old 2005-03-17, 07:25 AM
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RainDawg RainDawg is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Well, despite DVDs better error correction, having stored my discs in jewel cases away from light and undisturbed, I still get occasional instances where a disc has 1 or 2 files that are not readable. Since I never know if that's going to be a throwaway show that's easy to reproduce or something in low circulation that I really want to keep safe, I do use par2.

Par2 is not complicated at all. The only real drawback, which you've stated here, is that it can't recursively move through multiple folders to recreate a set. What that means is that, when doing a recovery, you'll need to move all of the files on the disc to a single folder, and then put the recreated files back into individual folders. This may be somewhat inconvenient, but it's hardly complicated, and taking those 2 minutes to do this is well worth it to recover a show that otherwise would have to be trashed.

Even with good media compulsively stored using safe methods, you're going to get discs that get read errors....that's just the nature of dye-based optical media. QuickPar is very simple software, and anyone who cares enough about a show to back it up in the first place should use the extra 20% of media space and ensure they can recover from errors.

Or, as you say, they could wait until it happens and then start digging through other people's lists to see if they can get a replacement.....
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  #33  
Old 2005-03-17, 10:17 AM
snaimpally snaimpally is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostboy
Anyone have any thoughts on this? I've been wonderig myself and need to start burning (and backing up, if necessary) some videos that I've downloaded.

Also, thanks Raindawg for the info on par2, Music Collector and Karma. Amazing all that you can learn from one thread!!
Well the DVDs are the first thing I archive because then I can play them on my big screen etc. Plus you don't have to worry so much about creating a listing of all the files on the disc etc.

I am paranoid so for DVDs I make 2 copies - a master and a safety. I use one for playing and copying and keep the other in its sleeve, untouched. That way if something happens to the one I am using, I have an unused spare to make a new copy from. I also test each copy and make sure they play. I have found DVDs to be less reliable than audio CDs.

If I end up doing par2 backups I might burn 2 copies for added redundancy.
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  #34  
Old 2005-05-19, 02:19 AM
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kurt_fire kurt_fire is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaimpally
I was browsing sleevetown.com website which RainDawg had suggested and found a DJ type case with 400 sleeves for $50.
http://www.sleevetown.com/cd-storage.shtml
I just ordered one of these and a CD cleaning cloth. They have a 15% off code (BIG15) on their site now. Total came to $53.xx after $6.xx shipping to me here in Florida.

Thanks for posting this!
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  #35  
Old 2005-05-23, 06:27 PM
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range_hood range_hood is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Storing DVD-Videos.
The video on a DVD is stored as data files.
I create a checksum of all the files and place the md5-file (and the info file) in the root directory of the dvd. That way Im able to check the files after burning.

If the initial seeder included the fingerprints a lineage as:
VID(1)>STANDALONE>DVD-R(5) would be as redundant as
aud(1)>nakamichi dragon>sbpro>wav>shn(5) is.

Lineage could be:
VID(1)>STANDALONE>DVD-R (md5s from initial seed)
2c081ef0504d1368eaadd72e7ad4c8d6 *VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.BUP
2c081ef0504d1368eaadd72e7ad4c8d6 *VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.IFO
2c0336bd6317c5aed301c8b06e74989c *VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.VOB
c40df642fc2e034af9acbd3f79a9960c *VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.BUP
c40df642fc2e034af9acbd3f79a9960c *VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO
82832ff188ba9be9bca696226a7339be *VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.VOB
a12886ee124479333c58afa0128c9dd9 *VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB
48a8cdc45a2bd77a636ed21affb788d5 *VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.VOB
7fff6c6e40391c3c08e004008ba802b9 *VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.VOB
59298be733a9e5326b1221700e82de53 *VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.VOB
42852718dd653bcbeabdb2a9c415e402 *VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.VOB


md5sum is a tool to create checksums of data files.

How I archive:
I use dvds and already have masses of (data) cds placed in spindles and archive the content in myFindex (german).
Once in a while I listen to the archived ones on my computer.
The cds in the spindles are really a pain in the ass for me.

How Id like to archive.
The cd-rw <-> dvd solution sounds good to me but Im really lazy.
It would be cool if a standalone and portable cd/dvd player could play flac files (but I havent found firmware updates supporting flac, etc. yet - has anyone out there??), as I hate detours - Im very lazy, or too busy. Also I have problems to accept the lazyness or whatever it is, that people are not willing to include the few kilobytes of flac codec in their firmware. So if you want to call me a lazy frustrated bastard you could be right .

A rio karma would be great but is too expensive at this time.
I just want to drop the archived cd/dvd into my player with no "disk error" showing up and listen to the music.
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  #36  
Old 2005-05-24, 03:14 AM
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squire23 squire23 is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Personally I don't find storing them the problem but rather cataloging where everything is. Some of the program suggested are good but too 'CD' orientated. What I mean by that is, if any of you other guys are like me then you discs of Music Videos, single song live performances etc. I want to be able to catalogus all these in one database.

At the moment I'm trying to work on an Access database because just with TLH I reckon that at some stage someone out there will come up with the ultimate trader's cataloging tool & Access is the most generic program to convert from if that happens. Having said that, it's pain in the ass to try & understand
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  #37  
Old 2005-05-24, 10:49 AM
jazzbo jazzbo is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

If you really want to get serious about cataloging, you might want to look in some discographical software. The difference is that discographical sessions concentrates on sessions for research purposes, whereas most software is (as you've found) about creating an 'inventory' and usually of actual releases.

For example, Brian is price-free and runs on Macs and Windows. I've considered buying an iMac just to run Brian.

But the idea of discographical software is to keep track of sessions which includes all of those one-off performances and videos, etc. Basically Brian acts as a front end to a relational database.

Note that the level of detail that it provides is total overkill for the non-anal:

intro:http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Brian...Doc/intro.html
download: http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Brian/BrianDL.htm
why session approach: http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Brian/sessBased.html

Brian is a tool used by the jazzdiscography project and all of the links can be found off the www.jazzdiscography.com page, but there is no central page so that's why the multiple links above.

(If anyone knows an open source functional equivalent of Brian or another disco graphical program, let me know. The only one that is close is recdb, which was hot stuff in 1996, but hasn't been updated in forever and has some real limitations.)
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  #38  
Old 2005-05-25, 02:49 PM
bootray bootray is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

I haven't heard anyone suggest removable "Lock n load" hard drive
modules. Priced at $10-15, drop a 200+gig HD in there for less than
$100 and when you are done backing up the lossless files,
remove the harddrive put it on the shelf untill you need it again.
Harddrive prices don't have to drop much further to make it an attractive
competitor to cd/dvdr media.
Harddrives last a long time when you only use them for bkup storage.
bootray
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  #39  
Old 2005-05-25, 07:16 PM
coolman5001
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Jazzbo: Brian looks great, but I'm having difficulties entering my information. It keeps on crashing on me when I try to enter song information - how do you do it?
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  #40  
Old 2005-05-26, 05:51 PM
coolman5001
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolman5001
Jazzbo: Brian looks great, but I'm having difficulties entering my information. It keeps on crashing on me when I try to enter song information - how do you do it?
..Nevermind, I figured it out.
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  #41  
Old 2005-06-01, 12:49 PM
donovana donovana is offline
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Question Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Hi folks. I have been downloading show for about 2 weeks now. I have already created about 10 cd's worth,at least. I have a question which I think I may already know the answer too, maybe I don't want to hear this answer, because I think I already know what it is going to be, but I figure if I am going to play this game, I want to do it right.

I don't have access to a lot of money, I am blind, am in between jobs, and am living on disability, and it sucks. Right now I am storing my cd's in spyndles, like the one's you get when you purchase blank cd's. Will this method work, until I can afford to purchase those cd booket you guys are talking about? Or will they become damaged somehow? If they get scratched, then why do they sell them in the spyndels in the first place? YOu would think they would already be scratched up when you get them home, since the cd's rub together when handeled the spyndel. I have noticed that you have to have a lot of resources to obtain and back up these shows like the big boys do, so to speak. I feeel like I am playing with toys, while everybody else is playing with the real thing with lots of resources, just frustrated, that's all, but I love this site man.
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  #42  
Old 2005-06-01, 01:11 PM
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AAR.oner AAR.oner is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

donovana--

i know a few collectors that still keep their archived discs on spindles...it's not the *best* method per se, but'll work...just make sure to keep the platic top on the spindle to keep dust and particles from getting in the discs...also, store the spindles a dark, dry place. the less light and moisture, the better...

hope that helps
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  #43  
Old 2005-06-01, 01:23 PM
Ted Ted is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

What AAR.oner said. Also, be sure to write down on the CD or make a label to tell you the contents of the CD. You can put a number on the CDs and keep them in order on the spindles so that you can find what you're looking for. I use a program called Broken Cross Disk Manager to catalog my CDs. It's really nice because all you have to do is insert the CD and it'll read the contents automatically and add them to the database.

If you take care of the CD's/spindles, it's an inexpensive and space-saving way to store them.

Another suggestion is to keep the ones you use most often on a seperate spindle.
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  #44  
Old 2005-06-01, 01:49 PM
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AAR.oner AAR.oner is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
What AAR.oner said. Also, be sure to write down on the CD or make a label to tell you the contents of the CD. You can put a number on the CDs and keep them in order on the spindles so that you can find what you're looking for. I use a program called Broken Cross Disk Manager to catalog my CDs. It's really nice because all you have to do is insert the CD and it'll read the contents automatically and add them to the database.

If you take care of the CD's/spindles, it's an inexpensive and space-saving way to store them.

Another suggestion is to keep the ones you use most often on a seperate spindle.
to further Ted's comment...

when writing on discs, i would ONLY write on this inside ring [the hub] as opposed to on the disc itself. sometimes, writing on the disc will cause problems later...just a side note!
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  #45  
Old 2005-06-01, 02:20 PM
Ted Ted is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip
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