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  #1  
Old 2006-06-13, 04:34 PM
calvin1663
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Does poor ratio equate bad trader?

not to get involved in this OK corall shootout or anything, but I must say something's afoot. When someone's got 2 posts highly recommending him versus an angry, crummy ratio person who bashes potheads...

I'm sorry, but just as a complete outside observer, YOU look like the one at fault...

Edit by U2Lynne: I split this arguement out from a Bad Trader thread since it got very off topic into a debate about whether a person with a bad ratio would perhaps also be a bad snail mail trader.
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  #2  
Old 2006-06-13, 04:42 PM
skodechoker
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

Ratio has no fucking bearing at all on a snailmail trade Calvin, this site also doesnt inforce ratios and some of us have very poor upstreams through no faults of our own. Go play ratio cop on your Coldplay hub. It is no indication whatsoever of a traders ability to fulfill snail mail trades.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ad.php?t=21515

How come he looks at fault? Ragu came on here and stated that everything he was sent didnt work, and now this guy is reporting that Ragu has rated everything he sent him. That looks a bit fishy in its own right and Ragu has some explaining to do as well.
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  #3  
Old 2006-06-13, 06:04 PM
calvin1663
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by skodechoker
Go play ratio cop on your Coldplay hub.

How come he looks at fault?

at your first point: leechers are no good. as a GENERAL RULE, people with lower share ratios tend to be the ones taking from the community without giving back as much (if you're going to leech a torrent, make sure you can seed at least 1:1), hence, someone with a lower ratio would tend to be someone who would not give back as much, thereby making it more likely they'd rip someone off

second point: as I stated above, ragu already had two posts to his credit saying he was an "excellent trader...highly recommended...very nice," so it would seem that he was the one on the good end of the spectrum. secondly, woody created a thread with a smi-nonsensical topic title, obviously written in haste and anger (note the multiple capitalizations, reapeating himself, etc.), which leads me to believe that he's a bit hot-headed. In short, if you don't like my points (and as I said "complete outside observer"), you can cram it up your ass, please.
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  #4  
Old 2006-06-13, 06:54 PM
skodechoker
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvin1663
at your first point: leechers are no good. as a GENERAL RULE, people with lower share ratios tend to be the ones taking from the community without giving back as much (if you're going to leech a torrent, make sure you can seed at least 1:1), hence, someone with a lower ratio would tend to be someone who would not give back as much, thereby making it more likely they'd rip someone off
.
Oh bullshit, you cannot deduct at all that anyone who leeches is going to be a bad snailmail trader. You're making invalid assumptions, do you have proof of this theory? A lot of people will also take advantage of that lack of rule, but it does not insinuate that that person is a thief or has any intention of being a thief. You're lobbing everyone who has a bad ratio without taking into account more likely things, that they are technologically not able to, etc. Prick.

This site does not enforce ratios, it states in the rules if you cant seed, give back another way, a LOT of people do that. Secondly, you're neither a mod nor an admin on here and every thread I see you posting in you're a fucking nazi about ratios.

If I dont like your points (which I dont) I will say so and if you dont like it, I really couldnt care less.

In woody's defense, if I am ripped off, Im going to get angry too, ESPECIALLY after (if hes telling the truth) what hes been through with this deal.

Way to look at both sides of the coin.
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  #5  
Old 2006-06-13, 07:45 PM
twistedintheNW twistedintheNW is offline
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvin1663
not to get involved in this OK corall shootout or anything, but I must say something's afoot. When someone's got 2 posts highly recommending him versus an angry, crummy ratio person who bashes potheads...

I'm sorry, but just as a complete outside observer, YOU look like the one at fault...
I completely agree. If a trader can't keep their ratio up there is a GREAT chance they will be a crappy snail mail trader. Thats just the way it works out. Looks like skodechoker, a shitty ratio holder himself, is sticking up for his kind. Makes sense.

And I've been trading with ragu for close to 2 years now I think?? Excellent trader. In fact, when he was first starting out he sent me discs that wouldn't work....twice! I sent a quick email each time and he priority mailed me replacements each time. He's gotten everything straightened out with the burning errors now and is a recognized great trader in our community.

In addition I've seen him on all the boards offering BnPs and trades. IMO we need more people like him in the community

Quote:
Originally Posted by skodechoker
True and I agree there are things in this issue that need to be sorted, Ragu was on a bit ago and did not comment.
I'd be willing to bet he didn't see it. Send him a PM and he'll chime in.

EDIT: POTHEADS = GOOD TRADERS. Count on it
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  #6  
Old 2006-06-13, 07:48 PM
skodechoker
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedintheNW
. Looks like skodechoker, a shitty ratio holder himself, is sticking up for his kind. Makes sense.
.
cock

I have a shitty ratio because of technology (avg 2.3 or something u/l) however look at the post below this one, look in the Vines forum.

As the rules to this site states, give back if you cant via the torrents.

way to make fucking assumptions on a persons ability to snail mail trade. IT HAS NO BEARING AT ALL and if you think otherwise, you're paranoid delusional.
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  #7  
Old 2006-06-13, 08:02 PM
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Chachi420 Chachi420 is offline
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by skodechoker
Ratio has no fucking bearing at all on a snailmail trade Calvin, ....
I couldn't disagree more....It's called a snail mail trade because the person getting discs also gives discs. That takes care of itself. Downloading and uploading are separate ballgames, my friend. The only exception is if someone is giving out mad amounts of freebies, which I doubt is happening in most cases. People just scapegoat their bad ratios off by saying, 'well I mail trade so that takes care of my bad ratio' FUCK THAT! That serves as dishoronable to those kind souls who try to provide music to us all by using their bandwidth to continually upload in order to share the groove...
sorry for my rant, but it is due every so often when people just don't realize...
peace & SHARE THE GROOVE,
Chachi420

PS-also, it is a known fact that almost EVERYBODY can dl faster than they can ul...it's just how internet connections are setup. There is no excuse for people to give that as a reason for crappy ratios. These people just want to take advantage of the nice people trying to share music with them out of the kindness of their hearts.

"If you're ratio is less than 1.0, then you are stealing from the TTD community" ~Chachi420
__________________
"dance to Jah music, dance....forget your sorrows and dance...forget your troubles and dance....forget your sickness and dance....forget your weakness and dance..." ~B.Marley

"If your share ratio is less than 1.0, then please offer b&ps and/or freebies to give back to the TTD community" ~Chachi
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  #8  
Old 2006-06-13, 08:14 PM
skodechoker
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chachi420
I couldn't disagree more....It's called a snail mail trade because the person getting discs also gives discs. That takes care of itself. Downloading and uploading are separate ballgames, my friend. The only exception is if someone is giving out mad amounts of freebies, which I doubt is happening in most cases. People just scapegoat their bad ratios off by saying, 'well I mail trade so that takes care of my bad ratio' FUCK THAT! That serves as dishoronable to those kind souls who try to provide music to us all by using their bandwidth to continually upload in order to share the groove...
You just agreed with me or at the very least contradicted yourself. A snail mail trade is a seperate issue from torrents/ratio.

I have a shitty ratio, I know I do and I do everything else I can to stop that from happening, a lot of the torrents Ive downloaded since Ive joined (April) were old and did not have a lot of leechers. Also, my upstream is capped BADLY, I might add by my ISP. It limits my upload speed to 5kpbs while my download gets as high as 500 sometimes.

If a trade is disc for discs, how can someone assume another person is a bad SNAIL MAIL trader because of their technological capabilities? Does a technology capability or incapability hinder their ability to burn and mail? Absolutely fucking not. It should have no bearing whatsoever. If it does well thats stupid. Its one thing if someone is leeching blatantly its another if its a technological hinderance.

I have a bad ratio because I have no other option and when I can open a torrent that needs it for someone else I do, I also set up vines and will do B&P when I can.

I dont see how a ratio should affect ANYONE in terms of other methods. There are extenuating circumstances (like mine) for a lot of people. If it was that much of a problem this place would enforce ratios and not provide other suggestions of sharing.
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  #9  
Old 2006-06-13, 08:52 PM
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Chachi420 Chachi420 is offline
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by skodechoker
... Its one thing if someone is leeching blatantly its another if its a technological hinderance.
.
I have to disagree...taking more than you give causes problems and torrents die early. By dl 500kbps and ul only 5kbps as you mention you do, this means that you are robbing others of downloading that torrent since you are stealing all of the bandwidth...irregardless of whether it is isp-limited or not (everybody is isp-limited bandwidth btw).
Simply put, if you do not share back what is shared to you, then you are depriving others of the music experience. That is great that you do mail trades, but how does that help out those that are stranded on torrents? It doesn't.
If everyone tried to share back what the receive via bittorrent, then the torrents would never die, and people would never get stranded...
__________________
"dance to Jah music, dance....forget your sorrows and dance...forget your troubles and dance....forget your sickness and dance....forget your weakness and dance..." ~B.Marley

"If your share ratio is less than 1.0, then please offer b&ps and/or freebies to give back to the TTD community" ~Chachi
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  #10  
Old 2006-06-13, 09:01 PM
skodechoker
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chachi420
I have to disagree...taking more than you give causes problems and torrents die early. By dl 500kbps and ul only 5kbps as you mention you do, this means that you are robbing others of downloading that torrent since you are stealing all of the bandwidth...irregardless of whether it is isp-limited or not (everybody is isp-limited bandwidth btw).
Simply put, if you do not share back what is shared to you, then you are depriving others of the music experience. That is great that you do mail trades, but how does that help out those that are stranded on torrents? It doesn't.
If everyone tried to share back what the receive via bittorrent, then the torrents would never die, and people would never get stranded...
Did you even read what I posted? I joined this site in April, probably 90% of the torrents Ive jumped on are dead because they were light as it was and I wanted to catch up to some of the great stuff thats been on here and I seeded till others were done. If someone jumps on one of those I gladly jump back on as long as its still on my harddrive. If you're so adamant about ratios then get on the owners to start enforcing a ratio. Torrents die not just because of leechers jumping off, lack of interest plays a big role too, especially if they've been aroudn the block for a while. Its even suggested by the owners to give back in other ways which I make every effort to do.

I dont understand how people are being robbed by my upload speed. I do the best I can on that angle, and if no one else is on the torrent and I jump off, who is getting robbed? The person who may or may not jump on someday? Is someone obligated to keep that torrent running constantly? Theres nothing in the rules that say anything of what you've said.

You take this wayyyyyyyyyyy too personal. Its one thing if someone rips you off in a snail mail trade, its another if theres 1 seeder and a leecher finishes a download and jumps off before the others finish which I have not and would not do.

And yet the point Ive been trying to make from the get go was ignored...

A Snail Mail trade does not equate to a ratio. You cannot tell if someone is going to rip you off in a snail mail trade by their ratio, its one thing if its your prerogative not to trade with that person but to assume that publically is a fallacy.
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  #11  
Old 2006-06-13, 09:10 PM
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xequence xequence is offline
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

I just have to jump in to this... I know more about bittorent then I do about snail mail trades, but heh. Just because TTD doesent enforce ratios doesent mean ratios dont matter. I am happy it doesent enforce ratios, as it just works better that way. Everyone has alot more download speed then upload speed, and most people who have a bad ratio will just be all "oh, I can download faster then I upload. You honestly expect me to take extra time to upload that I could take downloading?". Now, in my opinion, any ratio above 0.8 or so is fine. You have to give people some slack like that. But often (not all the time, definitally) if you get any lower then that you are just a leecher. I have to say it many times though, not all people with low ratios are. But many are.

If someone has the mindset "I dont have to other traders digitally with torrents", then chances are they might also have the mindset "I dont have to give back to other traders non digitally, with snail mail".

I used to have an ISP that capped me extremly (I still managed to keep a good ratio, I just didnt download as much) You know what I did? I switched. Now I can download alot more, and still keep a good ratio.
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  #12  
Old 2006-06-13, 09:13 PM
skodechoker
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

Anyway Im done hijacking this thread, to the original topic I dont think woody should be castrated until Ragu explains his side and whats going on. Good traders do go bad at times regardless of Ragu's past trades. I'm more inclined to give anyone posting a bad trader report the benefit of the doubt until both sides are heard. Its nothing personal to either side. If Ragu is in the right, then woody is a bad trader and even worse for starting this thread.

and to the rest of the topic...

If someone doesnt want to trade with me beacuse of my ratio, give a shit. Theres plenty who will and my feedback backs me up on my trading abilites. As for my technological hindrance I live in a small town that has one ISP that has broadband, Im doing the best I can until otherwise.
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  #13  
Old 2006-06-13, 09:19 PM
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Chachi420 Chachi420 is offline
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

also, the other option if you have very poor ul speeds, or a large amount of shows you wish to obtain, is to mail trade more often and download less often. Mail trades go much faster than torrents. I trade for everything on my list. I don't download at all. I only upload what I have obtained via mail trades. It is much easier to get lots of shows by mail trades than by torrents. It is much easier though to share lots of music by torrents than by mail trades, hence why I upload a lot of my collection here. I agree with xequence that it is good to have 0.8 ratio or above. It is really bad though to have less than 0.5 imo. It is not practical for everyone to have 1.0 ratio or higher, but we should all strive for that to share the groove on to newbies.
peace, and share the groove!
Chachi
__________________
"dance to Jah music, dance....forget your sorrows and dance...forget your troubles and dance....forget your sickness and dance....forget your weakness and dance..." ~B.Marley

"If your share ratio is less than 1.0, then please offer b&ps and/or freebies to give back to the TTD community" ~Chachi
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  #14  
Old 2006-06-13, 09:23 PM
skodechoker
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

still doesnt change the fact

that a bad ratio does not equal inability to snail mail trade
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  #15  
Old 2006-06-13, 09:28 PM
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Chachi420 Chachi420 is offline
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Re: BAD trader, Liar= Ragu420 Ragu421 whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by skodechoker
still doesnt change the fact

that a bad ratio does not equal inability to snail mail trade
exactly...I agree with that. A snail mail trade is a separate transaction from electronic trades.
a snail mail trade is and should be a 1 for 1 trade.
How is an electronic trade any different? It should also be 1 for 1 i.e. a 1.0 ratio... a bad ratio equals a bad ratio
I think you are starting to understand
__________________
"dance to Jah music, dance....forget your sorrows and dance...forget your troubles and dance....forget your sickness and dance....forget your weakness and dance..." ~B.Marley

"If your share ratio is less than 1.0, then please offer b&ps and/or freebies to give back to the TTD community" ~Chachi
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