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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2006-05-16, 11:18 AM
corsair corsair is offline
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DAT32 or Mp3?

I got this Simple Minds show from a trade...
Lineage is ECM 717 > D8...

Does the spectral looks lossy, or is the freq cut off due to mic freq limiaton or 32khz DAT?
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  #2  
Old 2006-05-16, 01:48 PM
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Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

from what I can see looks like 32kHz DAT

its not the mic because there would be at least noise up to the top

mp3 would show some artifacts at this zoom (other than just the cutoff)

could you post another sa that's zoomed out a little to show how even the cutoff at the top is?
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  #3  
Old 2006-05-16, 03:18 PM
mixwell mixwell is offline
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Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

Yes, that'd be good to see. A 32k DAT will cutoff very abruptly at 16k, there would be nothing at all above it.
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  #4  
Old 2006-05-16, 07:08 PM
corsair corsair is offline
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Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

A zoomed capture of the top.

Thanks fellas!
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  #5  
Old 2006-05-16, 08:16 PM
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Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

you're welcome...

but I meant please zoom out to 2 minutes view or something like that to see the spectral peaks. 32kHz DAT will have a bit more of an uneven "haircut".

I'm pretty positive this is 32kHz DAT anyways.
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  #6  
Old 2006-05-17, 12:01 AM
mixwell mixwell is offline
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Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

I don't know, in that zoom there is clearly shading above 16, more than just noise. That leads me to believe it's lossy, or possibly MD.
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  #7  
Old 2006-05-17, 12:30 AM
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Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

looks a little like atrac3 66kbps (Lp4) but that would show more artifacts in the lower freqencies for sure.

I can see why you'd say that but positively not MD imo.
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  #8  
Old 2006-05-17, 10:26 AM
mixwell mixwell is offline
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Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

I'm used to looking at Sound Forge's scopes and all these other ones really tweak my eyes sometimes, so forgive me if I'm seeing what's "not really there".

A 32K DAT is essentially 16K stereo sampling. This means anything above 16K (like 16.0001) is impossible. There is no ability for the realm to understand, record or decode anything beyond 16K on each channel, it's digital precision at it's best (or worst, if you like).

Now that somehow finds it's way to being upsampled to a 16-44 CD quality file, which we then are possibly viewing here. What would we see? In the conversion and depending on lots of conversion factors (filters, anti-alias, etc), noise can occur and spread into the remaining 16k to 22.05k area. But that noise would never (OK, let's say it's highly unlikely) exceed the -90db noise floor of digital.

So an FA showing what's happening at those freq's would help. If there is 17k material reaching beyond -90db, then it's most defintinely not a 32K source.

Sorry for the rambling...
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  #9  
Old 2006-05-17, 10:55 AM
corsair corsair is offline
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Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

Ok dudes...

I've included 2 more shots..

One is a SA - zoomed out to 2 mins for Five
Another is a FA....

Thanks folks!
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  #10  
Old 2006-05-17, 11:17 AM
corsair corsair is offline
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Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

Btw..

I got in another show...
This has got to be lossy right from the spectral...
Looks MD to me...
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  #11  
Old 2006-05-17, 01:53 PM
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Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

the 1st one I still believe to be 32kHz DAT

this new one isn't md... doesn't match with any documented codec, not even close.
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ead.php?t=8003

looks like mp3, don't trade that. seek thee a better source.
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  #12  
Old 2006-05-17, 06:56 PM
corsair corsair is offline
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Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

Well, some douchebag insisted to me it was two shows
done with DAT ECM 717 > D8... wanker...
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