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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2006-03-12, 10:47 PM
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Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

there is some dispute over the last track "Echoes" on this set... there appears to have been some noise added in the extreme highs then a little below that looks like parapets from a castle... which means lossy! specifically, it looks like ATRAC1- DSP Type-R (2001) - [292 kbit/s] (some pics here).

I'm looking for some more opinions on this one



long sample (9:37.259 to 12:31.664):
http://rapidshare.de/files/15370935/...ple1.flac.html

short sample (the first 20 seconds of the above sample):
http://rapidshare.de/files/15370998/...ple2.flac.html

complete show:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ad.php?t=19071

It looks unmistakably lossy to me... please post your opinions about it
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  #2  
Old 2006-03-12, 10:57 PM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

I assume you took this from the Winston "Remaster" .

All I can say is that I have both listened to this version of Echoes and done my own spectral view and frequency analysis and I am positive it is lossy. Pretty easy to detect.
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  #3  
Old 2006-03-12, 11:08 PM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

And here we go...another spectral view. Note the area in the red circle.

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  #4  
Old 2006-03-13, 12:01 AM
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WinstonRemaster WinstonRemaster is offline
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

Do any of you own Samplitude?
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  #5  
Old 2006-03-13, 12:02 AM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

yes, it is the Winston Remasters " Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 BBC Completely Revisited (FLAC)"

I have to pull it

please still post opinions on what you can see here
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  #6  
Old 2006-03-13, 12:10 AM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

Yea, I don't want to be the bad guy, but my opinion is that the last track is lossy.
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  #7  
Old 2006-03-13, 12:14 AM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

Playback using Samplitude Spectrogram shows sonic activity up to 22000hz .. which is identical to the PreFM SBD.. I guess I just don't see it.

Well thats the last "bootleg" source audio I will ever use.

Winston
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  #8  
Old 2006-03-13, 12:20 AM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

Forget all of the technical jabber for a few moments and just listen to the song itself.
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  #9  
Old 2006-03-13, 12:35 AM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalHero
Forget all of the technical jabber for a few moments and just listen to the song itself.
Trust me .. I have.. alot.

I dont see it .. or hear it.. but what do I know..

I'll take your word for it.

Winston
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  #10  
Old 2006-03-13, 12:36 AM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

Also to clarify, there are no unprocessed versions of Echoes from 1974-11-16 in circulation. I was listening to Echoes from "A Strange One" with headphones, and although it didn't sound as lossy as the other version, there were still some compression artifacts audible.

Also, some people claim that "some sort of processing technique has been used" on it, and the search continues...
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  #11  
Old 2006-03-13, 12:47 AM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

this is one that got under the radar at STG... the final verdict there was that it was over nr'ed as I recall. Everybody could hear there was something wrong of a digital sort but back then we were relying more on FA for detection... and this version has some noise added at the very top which creates some activity in the highest highs. How/why I'm not sure.



it is not only the bootlegs that are turning up lossy of course. The true lowgens are the best raw materials out there mostly every time.

Thanks for understanding WR your work is great it is unfortunate that this bad source got into the set.
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  #12  
Old 2006-03-13, 11:26 AM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalHero
When did I say anything here about Sirene009?

But however, I already clarified this in a previous post. Sirene used the version of Echoes from a Strange One for their release. Why would you compare them when they are the same?

Instead compare the version from "A Strange One" or Sirene 009 to the version found on this release.
Yeah, that was my bad - sorry for the mixup.

...so the "least lossy" version is the STG one? (Which is the one Winston used for this "completely revisited" version).

...or is the one from "Strange One" the least lossy but still not lossless?

I feel really stupid now but had to ask.

Last edited by PaulHarald; 2006-03-13 at 11:31 AM.
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  #13  
Old 2006-03-13, 02:46 PM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulHarald
Yeah, that was my bad - sorry for the mixup.

...so the "least lossy" version is the STG one? (Which is the one Winston used for this "completely revisited" version).
No, the STG/Winston one is the lossy one shown in this thread. That is why the torrent was removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulHarald
...or is the one from "Strange One" the least lossy but still not lossless?
I have never actually had the time to test out the version from a "Strange One" but I will do that ASAP and post back with the results. Winston does not want to use this one (I think) because people claim that it is processed in some way.
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  #14  
Old 2006-03-13, 03:21 PM
PaulHarald PaulHarald is offline
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

Thanks for the info. It is a great remaster Winston! Hope you will share it again in some kind of altered way. The "Strange One" version of Echoes does sound better I must admit. I would not blow any whistles if you used it :-)
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  #15  
Old 2006-03-13, 03:26 PM
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Re: Pink Floyd 1974-11-16 d2t11

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulHarald
I would not blow any whistles if you used it :-)
You wouldn't happen to be referring to certain New Orleans audience recordings that are ever so slightly tainted by certain whistle noises, would you?
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