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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2006-01-13, 01:40 AM
taygan taygan is offline
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unkown source (bootleg) MD possibly?

All right y'all here's a source from a bootleg that looks strange, uneven flattened tops, but with spike through them. MD perhaps? opinions are welcome.



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  #2  
Old 2006-01-13, 02:05 AM
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Re: unkown source (bootleg) MD possibly?

looks like MD source to me

analog transfer for sure

also can notice some cd/cdr extraction errors
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  #3  
Old 2006-01-13, 02:31 AM
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ssamadhi97 ssamadhi97 is offline
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Re: unkown source (bootleg) MD possibly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by taygan
MD perhaps?
Yep, looks quite like it.
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Old 2006-01-13, 02:40 AM
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Re: unkown source (bootleg) MD possibly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
also can notice some cd/cdr extraction errors
I doubt that.

If you mean the vertical line stuff, that's more likely caused by clipping during transfer or saturation during recording
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Old 2006-01-13, 02:48 AM
taygan taygan is offline
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Re: unkown source (bootleg) MD possibly?

I noticed that the blocks themselves are almost U shaped, with a little tail extending up ant the start and finish of each one. is this typical of MD?
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Old 2006-01-13, 03:29 AM
taygan taygan is offline
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Re: unkown source (bootleg) MD possibly?

where the heck is the edit button.. grumble.. Five, why do you say analog transfer for sure?
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Old 2006-01-13, 04:06 AM
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Re: unkown source (bootleg) MD possibly?

the MD signature when you zoom to 2 seconds tends to have that look like little parapets (is that the word?) built from lego (and a few free-floating blocks visible here and there). Take a look at some of the older threads in this forum, you can really get a feel for it that way.

transfers done digitally show pure black in the highs, whereas analog transfers will have that puple haze which is noise from the soundcard and/or analog output of the MD player. not so many MD decks even have a digital out (mine has only digital in but no digital out) so perfect digital MD transfers are a little more rare. EAC likes to show a haze on the highs on pretty much anything and everything, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssamadhi97
I doubt that.

If you mean the vertical line stuff, that's more likely caused by clipping during transfer or saturation during recording
yeah, that's what I mean. I believe these are usually scratches on audio cd/cdrs that are preserved when copied and/or not re-read and corrected when they're ripped (from not using EAC secure or similar). I suppose they could be added during a transfer but I see these a lot on audio cdr(x) mp3-sourced shows where you would think the encoding would wipe them out above 16kHz (or whatever the cutoff is) yet there they are going straight to the top. kind of a moot point anyways, we can surely agree its a sign of some form of sloppiness somewhere along the way.
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Old 2006-01-13, 04:25 AM
taygan taygan is offline
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Re: unkown source (bootleg) MD possibly?

First of all, thanks, I'm really feeling better about analyzing these shows. Although it's annoying to reboot into windows to use CEP. I should try it with WINE.

ANYWAY, here's a different show (I'm trying to weed out lossy shows) but an interesting one. It may explain the spikes in the unknown manu bootleg. Well, after looking at the two, this one is a lot smoother, so maybe not.

I don't understand the French completely but it's Radio (sat or FM?) recorded on an MD. Ah ha! The U-shape 'parapets', uneven blocks and then the occassional spike.





(Sorry, I'm a little lazy with trimming the screenshots.)

Here's the French text explaining the source. Five, you're Canadian, right? Parlez-vouz Francais?

++++++++++

Bonjour,



Je viens de faire une image d'un CD qui comprend 23 chansons acoustiques de Manu Chao, enregistrées à la radio en novembre et décembre 2002.

L'émission était captée par sat et enregistrée sur MD puis sur DD. J'ai scindé le tout grâce à CoolEdit (sans aucune transition audible entre les plages qui se suivaient) et recopié les .wav sur un CD. La qualité est impec.

J'ai enlevé les interviews pour que tout tienne sur un CD (76 mn).

Le fichier, qui comprend aussi les couvertures, est:



Manu Chao acoustique by me.rar



Les titres sont les suivants:

-snip-
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Old 2006-01-14, 01:32 AM
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Re: unkown source (bootleg) MD possibly?

now this one looks more like its been mp3'ed unfortunately

it might be MD > mp3 at some point

the cutoff is so straight and normally with md there aren't so many holes punched in the lower frequencies.

I am 25% French and I comprehend about 25% of what I read...

I do have a f-e dictionary handy I'll look up some of the difficult words tomorrow
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  #10  
Old 2006-01-14, 09:05 AM
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Re: unkown source (bootleg) MD possibly?

I disagree, I don't see anything in that picture that particularly hints at mp3 compression. A couple holes can be perfectly normal for MD, too - in any case an MD encoder is the last lossy/perceptual encoding this recording went through.


Quote:
Originally Posted by taygan
I noticed that the blocks themselves are almost U shaped, with a little tail extending up ant the start and finish of each one. is this typical of MD?
Yep.
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  #11  
Old 2006-01-14, 03:10 PM
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Re: unkown source (bootleg) MD possibly?

looking more closely I think you guys are right, this is MD using one of the codecs that you don't see as often these days.

With a little head scratching, paraphrasing & a lot of babelfish I came up with this translation:

Quote:
Hello,

I have just made an image of a CD which includes 23 acoustic songs of Manu Chao, recorded from the radio in November and December 2002. The emission was collected by sat (satellite?) and was recorded on MD then on DD (disc drive?). I have divided whole thanks to CoolEdit (without any transition audible between the beaches which was followed) and recopied the wav on CD. Quality is impeccable. I removed the interviews so that it all fits on one CD (76 mn). The file, which also includes the cover artwork, is: Manu Chao acoustique by me.rar ("Acoustic Manu Chao by me")

The titles are as follows:
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