The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?
 

Notices

Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2006-01-11, 12:29 AM
taygan taygan is offline
2.65 GB/2.89 GB/1.09
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
DAT LP or lossy?

Here's a show that I was told is DAT LP. I've looked at it and think that might be right, it looks good in audacity, but not so good in EAC.

Sonic Studios mics > D7
MDAT>CDR

notes: DAT was switched into LP mode, so the whole show is uninterrupted from a 60M master.

Audacity 2 sec frequency:



Audactiy 2 sec spectrum:



EAC 2 sec frequency:



EAC 2 sec spectrum:




Thanks,
taygan.

Last edited by taygan; 2006-01-11 at 01:04 AM.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2006-01-11, 03:10 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: DAT LP or lossy?

can I get a yousendit.com sample from this show? 10-20 seconds would be great (or just a short track from the show).
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2006-01-12, 06:07 PM
Malth Malth is offline
10.19 GB/15.92 GB/1.56
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Re: DAT LP or lossy?

I assume LP means it was recorded at 32kHz?

If so, it seems to look fine, not like some mp3's that have a very sudden cutoff at around 16kHz
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2006-01-12, 09:12 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: DAT LP or lossy?

32kHz DAT cuts off at about 16kHz so looks about right. that crap you're seeing in the highs is because EAC is terrible at sa.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ead.php?t=4288

There is a little bit of noise up there, but I could only spot it when viewing in b&w. it does look a little blocky at the top and a little fuzzed (perhaps from analog transfer?). I can't spot any direct evidence that this is lossy.

would love to get some more opinions on this
Attached Images
File Type: gif sa1.gif
( 137.4 KB, 15 views)
 
File Type: gif sa2.gif
( 171.5 KB, 14 views)
 
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2006-01-12, 10:15 PM
taygan taygan is offline
2.65 GB/2.89 GB/1.09
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Re: DAT LP or lossy?

Could the noise be from the unknown conversion from 32kbps sampling to 44.1(?) for the cd generation?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2006-01-13, 12:17 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: DAT LP or lossy?

I would guess it is from the transfer from the DAT deck to an analog input with a nearly noise-free soundcard

I'm really out on a limb saying this stuff, of course

the main thing to understand is that the noise you see displayed in EAC SA is not as it appears, it is a mirroring effect.

if you look at the more accurate CEP SA it is 98% noise-free

you can really get to the bottom of this if it is possible to track down the taper
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2006-01-13, 02:04 AM
ssamadhi97's Avatar
ssamadhi97 ssamadhi97 is offline
meow.
87.81 GB/69.41 GB/0.79
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Old Europe
Re: DAT LP or lossy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
would love to get some more opinions on this
Sure, if you hand over the sample...
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2006-01-13, 02:07 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: DAT LP or lossy?

yeah that might help

http://s6.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1Q...E19VVPRL1S8YVH

http://download.yousendit.com/D7ACD840270952FA
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2006-01-13, 02:42 AM
ssamadhi97's Avatar
ssamadhi97 ssamadhi97 is offline
meow.
87.81 GB/69.41 GB/0.79
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Old Europe
Re: DAT LP or lossy?

So, looks like it's from 32kHz DAT all right. You even see the faint mirroring/aliasing effect at 16kHz caused by the resampling filter.

Gotta go now, picture later if I don't forget.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2006-01-14, 02:41 PM
ssamadhi97's Avatar
ssamadhi97 ssamadhi97 is offline
meow.
87.81 GB/69.41 GB/0.79
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Old Europe
Re: DAT LP or lossy?

Here.

Note hawt vertical flipping action around 16kHz.

Typical side effect of resampling. Dig old threads for more info.
Attached Images
File Type: png flippy.png
( 60.1 KB, 36 views)
 
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Definitely Lossy ..... Right? - The FiXXXeR Lossy or Lossless? 2 2007-07-18 01:54 PM
Is this lossy? - Garteh Lossy or Lossless? 6 2006-05-21 09:38 AM
Are these lossy? - Meurglys0 Lossy or Lossless? 24 2006-05-16 01:15 AM
Lossy or md? - calvin1663 Lossy or Lossless? 3 2006-05-14 09:32 PM
Lossy? - nickdogg2001 Lossy or Lossless? 4 2006-04-21 05:06 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:22 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts