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  #1  
Old 2004-12-16, 12:10 PM
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Clipping on official releases

Intersting discussion going on over at Hydrogenaudio...
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...2&#entry260132

Apparently, the existence of clipped samples on officially released CD is becoming more and more prevalent. Just because something claims to be "remastered" doesn't mean it's better folks. Keep your eyes open.

Record companies are probably shoving old recordings through a mastering process without giving much attention to the specifics of the recording itself. Something quite a bit of dynamic range, like Dark Side of the Moon or Cookin' (the two albums discussed here) is going to foil their algorithms, and cause louder sections to become clipped.

Proof once again that not many people are not giving these recordings the TLA that they deserve.
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  #2  
Old 2004-12-16, 03:50 PM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

Let's not forget new cds that are getting the clip treatment, let alone remasters of classics.

The hard limiting and compression that's being done on radio-friendly band recordings is criminal today. 90% of the population won't care, but I have a couple cds that I've purchased in the last two years that I can't even listen to anymore because of clipping (*cough*foofightersonebyone*cough*)
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  #3  
Old 2004-12-16, 04:20 PM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

Quote:
Originally Posted by wattershed
Let's not forget new cds that are getting the clip treatment, let alone remasters of classics.

The hard limiting and compression that's being done on radio-friendly band recordings is criminal today. 90% of the population won't care, but I have a couple cds that I've purchased in the last two years that I can't even listen to anymore because of clipping (*cough*foofightersonebyone*cough*)
does anyone complain about these cd's to the record company or at least return them for a refund? Sounds like you are paying for shit, but if nobody complains about it, like everything else, they will continue to issue shit.
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Originally Posted by Rider
I think Gray has all these grand plans and I'm sorry to bring it up when it came down to it he couldn't even sell t-shirts without fucking it up.

"please mind your own fucking business, you Looney cocksucker" - Freezer, 7/12/06
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  #4  
Old 2004-12-16, 04:35 PM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorrcoq
does anyone complain about these cd's to the record company or at least return them for a refund? Sounds like you are paying for shit, but if nobody complains about it, like everything else, they will continue to issue shit.
We had a huge thread on the Zwan site about how fucked up the clipping on that album was, it was so bad Billy actually replied, everything he said was bullshit though.
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  #5  
Old 2004-12-16, 05:19 PM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

What exactly is clipping? Why can't I ever hear things that other people can hear? I can't even tell the difference between an mp3 and a lossless file.

-Phil
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  #6  
Old 2004-12-16, 05:36 PM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

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Originally Posted by irishcrazy2005
What exactly is clipping? Why can't I ever hear things that other people can hear? I can't even tell the difference between an mp3 and a lossless file.

-Phil

play the same song back to back in both formats and you'll be able to tell
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how can I obey the rule about no sexually explicit posts after seeing Lynne's back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider
I think Gray has all these grand plans and I'm sorry to bring it up when it came down to it he couldn't even sell t-shirts without fucking it up.

"please mind your own fucking business, you Looney cocksucker" - Freezer, 7/12/06
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  #7  
Old 2004-12-16, 06:11 PM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorrcoq
play the same song back to back in both formats and you'll be able to tell
Or better yet, use the foobar2000 ABX comparator, and see for yourself if you can tell the difference . I have pretty decent ears, but there is a definite limit where I am not better than 50/50, or pure chance, at telling the difference.
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  #8  
Old 2004-12-16, 09:43 PM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorrcoq
play the same song back to back in both formats and you'll be able to tell
I seriously did this like a week ago because it was driving me crazy that I felt that I couldn't tell, and I just could not tell. I am going to try that ABX thingy.

-Phil
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  #9  
Old 2004-12-16, 09:53 PM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

Maybe we should start an ABX thread. Basically, ABX is just a protocol for testing where you listed to sample A, then sample B, both of which you know what they are. Then you listen to the third sample and try to guess which it is, A or B. If you can't tell more than half the time, chances are that any percieved differences between the codecs is "just in your head".

I've used it to determine that I can't tell with OGG-5 or so, so I use OGG-6 just to be safe for compressing stuff to my portable.
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  #10  
Old 2004-12-17, 02:14 AM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDawg
Maybe we should start an ABX thread.
Here's something I posted a few days ago about a program that lets you compare different wav files...
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ead.php?t=1515
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  #11  
Old 2004-12-17, 02:26 AM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider
We had a huge thread on the Zwan site about how fucked up the clipping on that album was, it was so bad Billy actually replied, everything he said was bullshit though.
ZWAN! That was the other album I was trying to remember clipping. I sat at my computer staring at the screen trying to remember before typing my previous post in this thread.

The frustrating thing about Zwan's album is that they changed the composition of that album so much from how some of those songs sounded earlier in their creation, watered everything down, made it overly poppy...just thinking about it frustrates me. It could have been a brilliant disc. /offtopic

Anywho, another easy way to spot clipping is to rip a cd into wav, then drop those wavs into cool edit or another audio program. If there's clipping, there's going to be solid horizontal lines at the top of each channel, which basically means that the incoming signal was too loud (hot) and the signal peaked out at its max for an extended period of time. Sometimes, this "extended period of time" is only .25 seconds, but it just takes a semi-decent pair of headphones and a focused ear to spot it.

What's worse though is when you aren't even listening for it, and it pops up. It's like trying to listen to a radio station that's not coming in all the way, and delivers the occasional burst of static. Just enough to ruin the experience.
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  #12  
Old 2004-12-17, 02:42 AM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

OH, yeah, and that clipping thing is terrible!
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  #13  
Old 2004-12-17, 02:42 AM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

Quote:
Originally Posted by wattershed
ZWAN! That was the other album I was trying to remember clipping. I sat at my computer staring at the screen trying to remember before typing my previous post in this thread.

The frustrating thing about Zwan's album is that they changed the composition of that album so much from how some of those songs sounded earlier in their creation, watered everything down, made it overly poppy...just thinking about it frustrates me. It could have been a brilliant disc. /offtopic

Anywho, another easy way to spot clipping is to rip a cd into wav, then drop those wavs into cool edit or another audio program. If there's clipping, there's going to be solid horizontal lines at the top of each channel, which basically means that the incoming signal was too loud (hot) and the signal peaked out at its max for an extended period of time. Sometimes, this "extended period of time" is only .25 seconds, but it just takes a semi-decent pair of headphones and a focused ear to spot it.

What's worse though is when you aren't even listening for it, and it pops up. It's like trying to listen to a radio station that's not coming in all the way, and delivers the occasional burst of static. Just enough to ruin the experience.

You think the Zwan album was bad you should see some other stuff. The Mars Volta have an album where teh entire album clips. The song starts heads straight up to 0db and stays there. I had a gif of it at one time.
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  #14  
Old 2004-12-17, 03:52 AM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

Wasn't there a problem with LZ's "How the West was Won" along these lines.
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  #15  
Old 2004-12-17, 04:10 AM
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Re: Clipping on official releases

The fact the SACD layer on the Dark Side of the Moon has no clips, proves my theory. The record industry is fucking up the sound on CDs to make SACD sound better. They spent 30 years telling people CD was the highest quality sound and convincing people to "upgrade" to CD. Now they face the problem of trying to get people to make another format change.

This has been big issue with me for over 2 years now. I refuse to buy any CDs because of it.

I also worry about my hearing for example I can listen to CDs with no cliping and not notice anything, but when I listen to just one track that clips using headphones I notice ringing in my ears. Even when I lower the volume it still freaks my ears out.
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