The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble
 

Notices

Technobabble Post your general Need for Help questions here.
Lossy or Lossless?
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2005-11-30, 02:10 PM
poopshipdestroyer
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
IPODs

I'm thinking of getting an IPOD, but obviously because these files are so large I'll be running into a problem. If I convert all my files to MP3s, will they lose a lot of quality?
Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2005-11-30, 06:19 PM
rherron's Avatar
rherron rherron is offline
Columbia, SC
108.77 GB/109.04 GB/1.00
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Re: IPODs

MP3 (and other “lossy” formats) has traditionally been a sore spot in these parts. I think most are past the flame wars at this point. People are going to do whatever they want to do with their music.

The answer to your question is yes, converting the files (songs) to MP3 will degrade the quality of the sound. This is imperceptible/acceptable to many people, especially if done at higher bit rates.

If you get an iPod convert to AAC. It sounds identical to MP3 to me, and it's even more compressed.

Get ready to possibly be blasted by the MP3 haters.

Rob
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2005-11-30, 06:43 PM
thisistoto thisistoto is offline
505.91 GB/533.29 GB/1.05
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: IPODs

Unless your an audiophiliac you wont notice a huge difference. I never understood why people bought portable players just for the fact that you could upload FLAC or some other lossless file type. It kinda goes against the whole idea of a portable mini player.


The files take up waaaay too much room, and just listening on little headphones you wont hear much of a difference at all.


Let the iPod haters say all they want, but iPods are great. Thier wicked easy to use and own, the user interface is perfect, and they are pretty durable little mother fuckers.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2005-12-01, 12:40 AM
brimstone brimstone is offline
60.99 GB/384.40 GB/6.30
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Re: IPODs

I think it's a waste of space to put lossless music files on a digital audio player, because you will not hear any difference between a lossless and a properly encoded lossy music file.

If you have an IPOD i would recommend using aac, and the best solution for converting would probably be to use foobar2000 with an external encoder(if you're using windows).
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2005-12-04, 09:02 AM
ishallbefree's Avatar
ishallbefree ishallbefree is offline
47.90 GB/99.34 GB/2.07
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver; CO: US
Re: IPODs

I would suggest dbPowerAmp to encode.

My question is how many concerts are you putting on your iPod? If you're only putting one or two, then just burn them to a CD and listen to them on a cheap CD player. I would stick to just putting albums or misc. songs on it. I'm assuming you already own or download the band who's concert you're putting on you're iPod. I don't have that big of a problem with mp3s. Their useful for albums, and samples. That's about it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greengoat
I didn't loose my virginity...I have it preserved quite well.

Sony Handicam -> Dazzle Optical -> Pinnacle Hollywood FX for minor special effects -> authored with Studio 8 -> DVD+R with Roxio
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2005-12-04, 09:40 AM
DoIFeelLucky's Avatar
DoIFeelLucky DoIFeelLucky is offline
89.39 GB/113.04 GB/1.26
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Re: IPODs

I don't have a problem with the mp3 format for personal use. I try to keep abreast of LAME developments, and LAME's variable bitrate (VBR) presets are all I use when encoding something to mp3 (using foobar2000, like brimstone said).

My problem is with the iPod. Yeah, great storage, durability, compatibility, all these things are great. iTunes even has what many people in the know call the best AAC encoder around (and it's free). But neither iTunes nor the iPod are capable of gapless playback. I listen mainly to shows like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin, for which gapless playback is a must for an enjoyable concert experience. Can't do that on an iPod, unless you encode an entire concert to a single mp3 file.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2005-12-04, 10:37 AM
rherron's Avatar
rherron rherron is offline
Columbia, SC
108.77 GB/109.04 GB/1.00
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Re: IPODs

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoIFeelLucky
I don't have a problem with the mp3 format for personal use. I try to keep abreast of LAME developments, and LAME's variable bitrate (VBR) presets are all I use when encoding something to mp3 (using foobar2000, like brimstone said).

My problem is with the iPod. Yeah, great storage, durability, compatibility, all these things are great. iTunes even has what many people in the know call the best AAC encoder around (and it's free). But neither iTunes nor the iPod are capable of gapless playback. I listen mainly to shows like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin, for which gapless playback is a must for an enjoyable concert experience. Can't do that on an iPod, unless you encode an entire concert to a single mp3 file.
Someone mentioned here one time that if you put the songs on the iPod in WAV format it is capable of gapless playback. I cannot say that I have ever tried it as everything on my iPods is AAC. You might try it. Perhaps someone else could confirm or refute this.

Rob
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2005-12-04, 10:50 AM
ishallbefree's Avatar
ishallbefree ishallbefree is offline
47.90 GB/99.34 GB/2.07
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver; CO: US
Re: IPODs

I'll try it. I have a fourth generation.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greengoat
I didn't loose my virginity...I have it preserved quite well.

Sony Handicam -> Dazzle Optical -> Pinnacle Hollywood FX for minor special effects -> authored with Studio 8 -> DVD+R with Roxio
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2005-12-04, 10:53 AM
PyRo UK
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: IPODs

There's no problem with MP3s, or the players so long as you use a VBR with a minimum of no lower than 128kbps. I use Razorlame (a simple free LAME encoder) to encode to a VBR of Min 192kbps, max 320kbps.

I however would suggest that rather than buying an iPod, you buy the new Sony walkman, or a Creative Zen.
iPods have the ability to self-destruct for no apparent reason. You could wake up one day, tur it on and realise that the harddrive has screwed itself over during the night, even while it wasn't playing. The Zen Sleek (the Zen which I have) also has better aspects than the iPod including:
-FM radio
-The ability to transfer music WITHOUT the need of a special program which converts it to a format which isn't actaully MP3. This also means that with a Zen, you can take music off it and put it onto a computer which doesn't have iTunes, which you can't do with an iPod.
-Longer battery life
-Cheaper price
-The Zen Sleek looks classy as foock, whereas in my opinion the iPod looks a little "so what?"-ish.

There are also other crappy things which you'll never use like a calendar.

Also most people who own iPods don't have a clue what music actually is, so they only use about a tenth of its capacity which they fill with shitty bitrate tracks wich weren't any good even when they were audible. With the iPod, comes this personal label... absolutely free!

Of course if being labelled doesn't matter to you, then don't worry about that, but I'd still reccomend a Zen.

And whatever player you go for, you MUST buy a pair of earbuds (the things with silicon buds which stops outside noise getting in). They give far better quality sound, deeper bass, and they mean that when you're listening to music, all you hear is the music. Very handy when you have to get on a bus full of little kids.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2005-12-04, 11:09 AM
ishallbefree's Avatar
ishallbefree ishallbefree is offline
47.90 GB/99.34 GB/2.07
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver; CO: US
Re: IPODs

I will agree that most people with iPods hardly use any space. I have a twenty gig which I got for my birthday last year (I didn't ask for one, but hell, I'm not complaining.) It does it's job, I wish I had more space. I think the big thing is, since the iPod is the "big thing" everyone has them, and everyone likes what ever is on the popular radio station.

I've yet to have a problem with my iPod, and there is this nifty little accessory that lets you play your iPod off your car radio. I'm sure other mp3 players can do that also.

The Toshiba Gigabeat is a great mp3 player as well. Especially if you like the iPod photo (which is a complete waste of money). The Gigabeat is also cheaper then an ordianry iPod. I think they range from 10-40 gigs right now.

One thing though that kind of pisses me off about mp3 players is the binary thing. I think all mp3 players should go in GiB not GB.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greengoat
I didn't loose my virginity...I have it preserved quite well.

Sony Handicam -> Dazzle Optical -> Pinnacle Hollywood FX for minor special effects -> authored with Studio 8 -> DVD+R with Roxio
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #11  
Old 2005-12-04, 11:23 AM
ffooky ffooky is offline
14.55 GB/14.69 GB/1.01
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: IPODs

Quote:
Originally Posted by PyRo UK
-The ability to transfer music WITHOUT the need of a special program which converts it to a format which isn't actaully MP3. This also means that with a Zen, you can take music off it and put it onto a computer which doesn't have iTunes, which you can't do with an iPod.
What do you mean ? iPods can play MP3,AAC,ALAC,WAV & AIFF. I don't know about the Windows side but there are many applications for OS X that can transfer tracks from Pod to computer with no need for iTunes.

As for some of them dying unexpectedly...as there must be 8 iPods sold for every 1 of another flavour of DAP so I'd be amazed if we didn't hear about many more duff units than other players.

The gapless thing is a genuine issue, doesn't bother me unduly but I can see how it might others.

To the OP: I recommend 160kbps VBR AAC.
__________________
Two tracks for a desert island:

Black Keys - I Got Mine
Tintern Abbey - Vacuum Cleaner
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #12  
Old 2005-12-04, 11:47 AM
TheMamba's Avatar
TheMamba TheMamba is offline
I love them redheads!
70.51 GB/140.66 GB/1.99
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: South Florida
Re: IPODs

Quote:
Originally Posted by PyRo UK
iPods have the ability to self-destruct for no apparent reason. You could wake up one day, tur it on and realise that the harddrive has screwed itself over during the night, even while it wasn't playing.

No freaking shit. I just had this happen to me for the SECOND time.

Actually, it happened to me this morning as a matter of fact. No tunes while mowing the lawn.

I'm looking for something else now. Screw Apple and the horse they rode in on.
__________________
Audio List

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpermaLopez
Sorry, I'm still a n00b.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #13  
Old 2005-12-04, 11:53 AM
PyRo UK
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: IPODs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffooky
As for some of them dying unexpectedly...as there must be 8 iPods sold for every 1 of another flavour of DAP so I'd be amazed if we didn't hear about many more duff units than other players.
I never thought about it like that. i'm not sure anymore, but I've heard about probably over 20 of my mate's iPods dying, but never encountered or even read about a Zen dying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffooky
I don't know about the Windows side but there are many applications for OS X that can transfer tracks from Pod to computer with no need for iTunes.
Exactly. There are many applications for it. With a Zen, Windows can handle it without the need for ANY application.

And the Zen has very nearly no silent time. The gap between tracks is almost unnoticable unless you're listening specifically for it.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #14  
Old 2005-12-04, 12:52 PM
rherron's Avatar
rherron rherron is offline
Columbia, SC
108.77 GB/109.04 GB/1.00
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Re: IPODs

PyRo UK:

I’m not even sure where to begin.

I have 2 iPods. One is about 3 years old (the very first model). The other is a little more than a year (generation 4 model). I have never had a single problem with either.

My friend bought his iPod about same time I did (the first gen iPod) and it died after maybe 6-9 months. It was replaced, for free, under warranty. The replacement was the generation 2 iPod I believe – the one with the 4 buttons plus the wheel – and it came with a bigger HD than the one that died. That one has been going strong for 2 plus years.

As was pointed out already, if MP3 is your thing, iPods play MP3s.

I know a great deal about music, bit rates, etc. I have 2 iPods because I have enough music to fill 2. I am thinking very seriously about getting a 3rd iPod this month. I like the video feature and I would like one exclusively filled with shows I’ve downloaded from Dime, TTD, etc.

I think the deal is that YOU don’t care for iPods because they are extremely popular and you see yourself as being some sort of “outside the box” hipster. Get whatever kind of portable music player you like. But don’t suggest that iPods are crap. Their not. They do what they do extremely well, that’s why Apple has 75% of the US market for portable MP3-type music players.

Rob
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #15  
Old 2005-12-04, 01:31 PM
ishallbefree's Avatar
ishallbefree ishallbefree is offline
47.90 GB/99.34 GB/2.07
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver; CO: US
Re: IPODs

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greengoat
I didn't loose my virginity...I have it preserved quite well.

Sony Handicam -> Dazzle Optical -> Pinnacle Hollywood FX for minor special effects -> authored with Studio 8 -> DVD+R with Roxio
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Foobar for iPods? - coolman5001 Technobabble 2 2005-05-01 01:25 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:10 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts