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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2005-10-31, 11:31 AM
*dJ* *dJ* is offline
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How do you qualify this?

I made two recordings [of course, I know line-age and conversions], but I want to know how the analysises are rated/qualified by people who don't now the line-age.

I just want to have some feedback on the recordings, before I am going to convert them to .flac (and possible trade), if it's considered worth to do so.

Show 1:
Freq. An.:

Spec. An.:


Note: Spectral analyse is form full recording incl. support + pause/waiting
(support act is start at ~1h10min till ~1h50min main show starts around 2h17m) Frequency analyse is from main show only.

Show 2
Freq. An.:

Spec. An.:

In this case Freq. An. is taken from start till ~1h50m (end of show)
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  #2  
Old 2005-10-31, 11:39 AM
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Re: How do you qualify this?

based on the FA alone, i'd guess high-quality MD maybe, given the dropoff ~20kHz...i'm no expert tho so thats just a guess...or did you use a lowpass filter maybe?

the SA would need zoomed in to around 2 seconds, can't tell anything from a clip that length
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  #3  
Old 2005-10-31, 12:29 PM
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Re: How do you qualify this?

never seen a SA so RED! there's something fishy here but I don't know what. is it possible for you to post a couple 10-second samples on yousendit.com and post the links in this thread? I'd really like to hear this and take a closer look.
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  #4  
Old 2005-10-31, 01:01 PM
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Re: How do you qualify this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR.oner
the SA would need zoomed in to around 2 seconds, can't tell anything from a clip that length
Didn't know that.

2 sec SA from second show:


Fist show will follow

ps No filters are used
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  #5  
Old 2005-10-31, 01:06 PM
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Re: How do you qualify this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
never seen a SA so RED! there's something fishy here but I don't know what. is it possible for you to post a couple 10-second samples on yousendit.com and post the links in this thread? I'd really like to hear this and take a closer look.
I think used the oposed colors as normal:

High energy = blue
Low energy = red
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  #6  
Old 2005-10-31, 01:15 PM
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Re: How do you qualify this?

can you go to settings and change to default colors? my eyes are burning looking at that red and I can't really see what's going on there
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  #7  
Old 2005-10-31, 03:47 PM
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Re: How do you qualify this?

done

Show 1

Show 2


I noticed during second that sometimes when I copy & paste the 2-sec-snipset it made a mono to stereo conversion (this was not the case for the picture of show 2 above). I am pretty sure this is due to the way of recording, since I had the recorder in my pocket and was jumping around causing one of the 'mics' (little hint?) not picking up the signal... is this really bad if i want to trade?

This is not the case for show 1 since for this show I didn't arrived one minute for main act
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  #8  
Old 2005-10-31, 04:52 PM
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Re: How do you qualify this?

ack I'm probably giving you a headache

I can see better, would be even better if it was un-hilighted

anyhow from what I can see there's not much response above 14kHz so your mic probably isn't very good

the best way to tell is by listening, really

also when you copy & paste there shouldn't be a conversion... this affects the sound quality. it doesn't have anything to do with the recorder being in your pocket.

as for trading, if you taped it and nobody else did and its lossless then somebody somewhere will probably want to check it out. even if somebody else taped it hardcore fans of the band might want a copy. just be open about how it was recorded etc. I take it by 'mics' you mean you recorded it by plugging the headphones into the mic jack, right? that's not great for quality but if you trade it telling everybody how it was recorded then its fair game. even tho some ppl won't want it as soon as they read that its better than trying to hide it. just get some better 'mics' next time.

so what I need from you for me to help you is for you to just tell the whole story about how you taped it ('mics' and type of recorder) then about how you transferred it to your computer and let me hear a little snippet of how it actually sounds (no conversions!) and I'll give you my honest opinion. sometimes its a miracle that any kind of tape exists for some shows we all just hope that ppl do the best they can under the circumstances.

how does it sound to you? would you want to recieve this in a trade?

so can you tell
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  #9  
Old 2005-10-31, 05:18 PM
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Re: How do you qualify this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
ack I'm probably giving you a headache

I can see better, would be even better if it was un-hilighted

anyhow from what I can see there's not much response above 14kHz so your mic probably isn't very good

the best way to tell is by listening, really

also when you copy & paste there shouldn't be a conversion... this affects the sound quality. it doesn't have anything to do with the recorder being in your pocket.

as for trading, if you taped it and nobody else did and its lossless then somebody somewhere will probably want to check it out. even if somebody else taped it hardcore fans of the band might want a copy. just be open about how it was recorded etc. I take it by 'mics' you mean you recorded it by plugging the headphones into the mic jack, right? that's not great for quality but if you trade it telling everybody how it was recorded then its fair game. even tho some ppl won't want it as soon as they read that its better than trying to hide it. just get some better 'mics' next time.

so what I need from you for me to help you is for you to just tell the whole story about how you taped it ('mics' and type of recorder) then about how you transferred it to your computer and let me hear a little snippet of how it actually sounds (no conversions!) and I'll give you my honest opinion. sometimes its a miracle that any kind of tape exists for some shows we all just hope that ppl do the best they can under the circumstances.

how does it sound to you? would you want to recieve this in a trade?

so can you tell

Will post the unhighlighted versions and some snippet tomorrow (I am in Europe) -- .wav right?


indeed as mics I used headphones..

lineage:
JVC HA-F120>Sony HiMD MZ-NH700 (hi sp mode)
conversion[s]:
Sonic Stage 2.x to get .oma > MarC's HiMdRenderer v0.31 to get .wav

First show:
HiMd between stage and crowd in backpack.

Second show:
In pocket with the headphones free to move (took us >7hours instead of the planned 3,5-4 to get to the venue & minute after we entered gig started -> no time to put it in better spot).

From the second show I think it is the only recording (apart from a crew SBD, which is unaivable for non-crew/non-bandmembers) and since it was last show of the band, I know people would want it (although it has some really bad part due to jumping etc., but just had to jump ).
First show is okay for me (keeping in mind the 'mics'), but want to hear some others opinion about it..

Futhermore I know I need to get myself a good mic, any advise?
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  #10  
Old 2005-10-31, 06:53 PM
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AAR.oner AAR.oner is offline
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Re: How do you qualify this?

with that model, can't you record directly to .wav? why the need for .oma > wav conversion?

as for mics:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ad.php?t=11305
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ad.php?t=10304
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  #11  
Old 2005-11-01, 08:54 AM
*dJ* *dJ* is offline
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Re: How do you qualify this?

You have various recording modes, but the main ones are:
PCM, Hi SP and Hi LP. PCM is best (wav?), but the problem is you can only record 94 minutes on a 1GB disc in PCM, so if you are started to earlied (e.g. when you put the recorder between stage&crowd) or the show happens to be long.. you will not get the full show. That's why I decided to go for Hi SP (about 8 hours on 1 GB disc, so even normal MD are good enough to record whole shows -- but of course a big lose in quality?).

Maybe it's a good option to change disk (+battery?) during encore (if possible/needed)!?

..but to come back to the question of directly importing the as .wav: I just checked and for PCM & HiSp recordings it's possible, but after the recording is loaded (converted to .oma???) there is a pop-up saying converting to .wav, so I am not sure if it's .oma in 'first load' -- anybody knows?

Anyway the reason I used HiMdRenderer is that SonicStage only allows you to get convert your recording one time, but luckily this is not the case for in current version of SonicStage... so this will me save me some time/work in the future!

*sorry for all, slightly off topic, talking*

Sample are saved with following settings:

44100 sample rate
16 bit
stereo
Windosw PCM *.wav

Show 1
Sample 1:
http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1...53V7MK25LTHGYL
Sample 2:
http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3...838IUX9W40UISC
Sample 3:
http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2...W1NUSAWV8SCXHB

SA (hope you mean this with not highlighted..):


Show 2
Sample 1:
http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2...33J303WLZHYG9L
Sample 2:
http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1...037VBLTE1DHHQW
Sample 3 (instrumental):
http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0...O138AI8HYU7LXG

SA:


I am open for suggestions/criticism/tips/help/words of advice!
In fact I will apperiate it!

E.g. How to increase the 'power' of instruments (I think it's a bit soft/flat?), or is that just a matter of mic? [maybe I should ask this in another part of the forum -- if so feel free to move the thread!].

Finally, of course if I am trading any of my recorders I will tell the line-age and give samples.. I don't want to dissapoint people!
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  #12  
Old 2005-11-01, 10:06 AM
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Re: How do you qualify this?

... that's still highlighted lol

what I mean is

highlighted:


now click the cursor somewhere in the middle, and then its

unhighlighted


but anyhow that's not so important

we can help you best by discussing how you're transferring it and hearing some samples to get an idea what the sources actually sound like. when in doubt, just leave them unprocessed!
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  #13  
Old 2005-11-01, 10:16 AM
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AAR.oner AAR.oner is offline
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Re: How do you qualify this?

to answer a few of yer ?s dJ...

yes the mics make a BIG difference in regards to the sound of the instruments...i'll assume yer only looking for stealth mics, and though i've never used minis, i have numerous recordings with various models and i'd say that the SP-CMC series of mics are the best sounding...check soundprofessionals.com for various models [probably want to go for cardioid model as opposed to omni caps]

also one thing you might wanna look into would be a Battery Box that you run between the mics and the recorder...these usually increase the overall quality of a recording

personally, i'd record direct to PCM and just keep an extra disc for switching between songs...or, if they make larger than a 1GB disc for the recorder, get one
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