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  #1  
Old 2005-09-27, 08:00 PM
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Thumbs down Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Okay. Here goes...

Checking this show I downloaded. I didn't notice it had ffp since it was a text file so I verified the files with Flac Frontend v.1.7.1. Half the files failed:



Then I notice the ffp txt file so I change the extension to .ffp and run it with TLH and everything verifies ok, says checksums match for all files.

So I make a new ffp and it matches what is in the original.

I run them through Flac Frontend again, same errors on half the files.

I make an st5 and the files that failed have a different checksum than the ffp.

So now I'm wondering what is the point of having and checking ffp if they can go through TLH with no errors? I've been checking and archiving shows that I checked with TLH and now I'm not certain that everything's okay with them. I'm a bit perturbed by it too. I guess I should have been verifying them with Flac Frontend instead.

So now what do I do with these files? How did this happen? I need to fix a couple SBEs so I guess I'll see what happens after I do that.

Comments? Suggestions? Thanks.
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Last edited by feralicious; 2005-09-27 at 08:09 PM.
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  #2  
Old 2005-09-27, 08:15 PM
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Okay, so I did the SBE fix with TLH and the fixed files verified fine with Flac Frontend. Then I made new ffp and st5 for these fixed files and they all matched.

Can someone explain what happened and why? I ran the SBE fix on all files even though just 2 of them had SBE, so even though they theoretically didn't change, they must have since they now verify and come out with different ffp.

I guess the moral of the story is to continue to check all st5 and ffp against each other before archiving/verify all files with Flac Frontend. I was doing that but I got lazy on the last DVD-R I just archived. Hope it's okay...
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  #3  
Old 2005-09-27, 09:48 PM
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

i'm not sure whats going on with that show fera, but this is why i don't really like ffp.txt checksums as the ONLY checksum...since its a text file, it can be manually edited easily [opens the door for issues/mishaps]...

st5 seems the best route now for all lossless files...way better than wholefile md5, and better than ffp's in my opinion
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  #4  
Old 2005-09-27, 09:53 PM
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Well the ffp wasn't wrong, the files themselves were. I made a new ffp and it matched the one that came with the show. But neither matched the st5. Then after they went through the SBE fix they were fine and the ffp matched the st5.
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  #5  
Old 2005-09-28, 01:43 AM
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR.oner
i'm not sure whats going on with that show fera, but this is why i don't really like ffp.txt checksums as the ONLY checksum...since its a text file, it can be manually edited easily [opens the door for issues/mishaps]...

st5 seems the best route now for all lossless files...way better than wholefile md5, and better than ffp's in my opinion
Explain to me how it is that you can edit ffp's but not st5's. I thought st5's could also be opened in any garden-variety text editor and be tweaked.
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  #6  
Old 2005-09-28, 01:52 AM
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfsljunkie
Explain to me how it is that you can edit ffp's but not st5's. I thought st5's could also be opened in any garden-variety text editor and be tweaked.
Yes they can.
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  #7  
Old 2005-09-28, 02:22 AM
spiritinaphoto
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by feralicious
Yes they can.
I knew at least the ones I made could, because opening a text editor and pasting what I got from the command-line output was how I made them. But of course, I could be making them the wrong way for all I knew.
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  #8  
Old 2005-09-28, 04:47 AM
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by feralicious
Well the ffp wasn't wrong, the files themselves were. I made a new ffp and it matched the one that came with the show. But neither matched the st5. Then after they went through the SBE fix they were fine and the ffp matched the st5.
This torrent had a similar problem
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=3038
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  #9  
Old 2005-09-28, 09:25 AM
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfsljunkie
Explain to me how it is that you can edit ffp's but not st5's. I thought st5's could also be opened in any garden-variety text editor and be tweaked.
you can edit any of them true...but when running an st5 with xACT or TLH, the st5 automatically runs in one of those progs when you double-click...with a ffp.txt, it automatically opens in yer text editor [atleast on my PC it does]...this simply makes it easier for an "accident" to happen and the fingerprint to get changed...does that make sense? ignore me if it doesn't--this is just one of my neurotic pet peeves and i'm still on coffee #1
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  #10  
Old 2005-09-28, 11:40 AM
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR.oner
you can edit any of them true...but when running an st5 with xACT or TLH, the st5 automatically runs in one of those progs when you double-click...with a ffp.txt, it automatically opens in yer text editor [atleast on my PC it does]...this simply makes it easier for an "accident" to happen and the fingerprint to get changed...does that make sense? ignore me if it doesn't--this is just one of my neurotic pet peeves and i'm still on coffee #1
Coffee #2 here and it makes sense to me.
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  #11  
Old 2005-09-28, 12:50 PM
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfsljunkie
I knew at least the ones I made could, because opening a text editor and pasting what I got from the command-line output was how I made them. But of course, I could be making them the wrong way for all I knew.
Can you add a command to have it make a txt file in the show's folder? That's what my shntool batch file does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR.oner
you can edit any of them true...but when running an st5 with xACT or TLH, the st5 automatically runs in one of those progs when you double-click...with a ffp.txt, it automatically opens in yer text editor [atleast on my PC it does]...this simply makes it easier for an "accident" to happen and the fingerprint to get changed...does that make sense? ignore me if it doesn't--this is just one of my neurotic pet peeves and i'm still on coffee #1
WARNING!
PLEASE FINISH COFFEE #2 BEFORE CONTINUING
PROCEED WITH CAUTION

I just change the extension to .ffp and voila!
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  #12  
Old 2005-09-28, 01:12 PM
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

yep fera, i've just gotten a few shows before where someone [inadvertently i hope] had screwed up the ffp.txt file and i had to make new ones...like i said...neurotic...pet peeve
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  #13  
Old 2005-09-28, 02:10 PM
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Thatīs Blondie July 9, 1979, isnīt it?
These files are rotting on my harddisk since I downloaded. I asked dgkdgk (the taper and seeder) to reseed them and reported the torrent to the DaD staff. No response from the seeder, a mod over there said the torrent is ok as long as no other leecher has a problem with it.

If you listen to the problematic tracks you will hear digital errors, so please donīt trade this further without noting that in the info file.

The ffp-txt file matches the "fingerprint infomation" in the flac files, but the audio content has different checksums. Maybe the seeder flaced the files without verify?
In TLH "Verify checksum file" (ffp) does only compare the textfile to the "fingerprints" stored in the flacs. Where "Test encoded files" (same as flac.exes Verify) decodes the audio, calculates the checksums and compares that to the "fingerprint information" in the flacs.
This "Test encoded files" is comparable to a st5 checksum verification.

What I do is checking if all checksums do match and "test encoded files" (all in TLH) - additional listening to questionable files a bit closer and noting all problems. And maybe persuading the seeder, as he seems to be the taper, to reseed a fixed show.
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  #14  
Old 2005-09-28, 02:34 PM
spiritinaphoto
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by feralicious
Can you add a command to have it make a txt file in the show's folder? That's what my shntool batch file does.
I don't use batch files--I just enter in the commands directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR.oner
you can edit any of them true...but when running an st5 with xACT or TLH, the st5 automatically runs in one of those progs when you double-click...with a ffp.txt, it automatically opens in yer text editor [atleast on my PC it does]...this simply makes it easier for an "accident" to happen and the fingerprint to get changed...does that make sense? ignore me if it doesn't--this is just one of my neurotic pet peeves and i'm still on coffee #1
I've got the perfect solution for you--it's called read-only.
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  #15  
Old 2005-09-28, 02:41 PM
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feralicious feralicious is offline
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Re: Flac Fingerprint vs. st5 / Flac Frontend vs. TLH ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR.oner
yep fera, i've just gotten a few shows before where someone [inadvertently i hope] had screwed up the ffp.txt file and i had to make new ones...like i said...neurotic...pet peeve

Okay, so I should have told you to have coffee #3 or 4 first. You don't have to make a new one. Just change the extension of the existing file to make it a ffp file.
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