The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Site Announcements & Suggestions
 

Notices

Site Announcements & Suggestions This is where you should make your suggestions to us on how to improve your experience here and where to post about site problems/issues.
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2015-03-03, 09:28 PM
sonofedg's Avatar
sonofedg sonofedg is offline
1.18 TB/6.76 TB/5.73
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 400 Chelsea Ave . . .
Question Web Casts . . .

Lots of prime stuff out there, maybe a new thread for these?
__________________
1. Shut your mouth . . .
2. Cover your ass . . .
3. Play the game . . . .
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2015-03-04, 07:01 PM
sonofedg's Avatar
sonofedg sonofedg is offline
1.18 TB/6.76 TB/5.73
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 400 Chelsea Ave . . .
Re: Web Casts . . .

Just got a Billy Cobham, 2015' from Dime Looks Great! . . . IMO . . .
__________________
1. Shut your mouth . . .
2. Cover your ass . . .
3. Play the game . . . .
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2015-03-08, 01:31 AM
rspencer's Avatar
rspencer rspencer is offline
TTD Hoarder
TTD Staff
262.05 GB/271.31 GB/1.04
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: the outer limits
Re: Web Casts . . .

This is covered in the Audio BitTorrent Seeding Policy.

Quote:
12. Webcast rips and Digital Satellite Broadcasts are not permitted on The Traders' Den.
At the current time, webcasts and digital satellite radio broadcasts (such as xm radio) are not held to any reasonable quality standards. We are aware that there are some nice sounding webcasts and digital satellite radio broadcasts available in some locations, but at this point it would be a slippery slope to try to regulate what separates quality from not quality in these areas.
__________________
My main list .... My masters

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
Sometimes im dense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
I hate not being a real man.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2015-04-26, 11:58 PM
UberDemon's Avatar
UberDemon UberDemon is offline
548.23 GB/3.83 TB/7.15
 
Join Date: May 2007
Re: Web Casts . . .

TTD admins, et al,

This is 2015, not 1998. It is beyond laughable that TTD hasn't found a way to allow webcast rips/dumps on this invaluable site while still maintaining acceptable levels of quality and proper documentation of lineage.

There are tools like rtmpdump and AdobeHDS.php that enable "lossless" (untouched would be a more appropriate term here, with the point being that these tools enable one to grab a bit-for-bit accurate rip of the webcast feed) rips. Let people upload webcast rips, but require that they provide screen grabs proving that the method that they used meet acceptable standards to be outlined by the TTD admin team.

It's one thing to implement quality standards (no screencasting grabs [blech], minimum bitrate requirements, accurate description of the method/software used, lineage, etc, but an outright ban?!! C'mon Den, you're better than that. There are so many excellent high definition streams out there these days that can only be obtained via webcast rip, and it's damn near a crime to deprive this community of music lovers of the plethora of material they're missing out on due to this antiquated rule. Sure, there are other sites where one can find webcast rips, but I don't want to see TTD go the way of Sugarmegs and fade away into obscurity because of a failure to change with the times.

As the aged hippie so eloquently told Monty Burns: "Contemporise, man!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdqLMkPqjOQ

- Uber

PS: DVD as a format is dying. It's on life support right now. It's now possible to convert a DVD to an mkv (matroska) file without transcoding thanks to FFMPEG and the libav dev team, yet per the TTD rules I think this also is currently disallowed. Yet another example of how this community is falling prey to stubbornly ignoring current technology trends. Sure, there's blu-ray, but why burn BD disks when one can simply use a media player/HTPC and playback their media without the need to buy/burn physical media?

/end rant
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2015-04-29, 12:08 AM
rspencer's Avatar
rspencer rspencer is offline
TTD Hoarder
TTD Staff
262.05 GB/271.31 GB/1.04
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: the outer limits
Re: Web Casts . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberDemon View Post
PS: DVD as a format is dying. It's on life support right now. It's now possible to convert a DVD to an mkv (matroska) file without transcoding thanks to FFMPEG and the libav dev team, yet per the TTD rules I think this also is currently disallowed. Yet another example of how this community is falling prey to stubbornly ignoring current technology trends. Sure, there's blu-ray, but why burn BD disks when one can simply use a media player/HTPC and playback their media without the need to buy/burn physical media?

/end rant
From the HD Video Seeding Policy in the FAQ:

Quote:
2. Permitted file formats.

High Definition Transport Stream (.ts) and Matroska container (.mkv) is preferred format for straight digital captures of HD TV broadcasts.
__________________
My main list .... My masters

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
Sometimes im dense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
I hate not being a real man.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2015-05-01, 02:30 PM
UberDemon's Avatar
UberDemon UberDemon is offline
548.23 GB/3.83 TB/7.15
 
Join Date: May 2007
Re: Web Casts . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by rspencer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberDemon View Post
PS: DVD as a format is dying. It's on life support right now. It's now possible to convert a DVD to an mkv (matroska) file without transcoding thanks to FFMPEG and the libav dev team, yet per the TTD rules I think this also is currently disallowed. Yet another example of how this community is falling prey to stubbornly ignoring current technology trends. Sure, there's blu-ray, but why burn BD disks when one can simply use a media player/HTPC and playback their media without the need to buy/burn physical media?

/end rant
From the HD Video Seeding Policy in the FAQ:

Quote:
2. Permitted file formats.

High Definition Transport Stream (.ts) and Matroska container (.mkv) is preferred format for straight digital captures of HD TV broadcasts.
Yes, but we're talking about WEBCASTS in this thread, not HD TV broadcasts. Also, I think you missed my point that instead of uploading an authored Blu-Ray an uploader could instead upload it in a single .mkv file, and the underlying video/audio codecs/bitstream would be IDENTICAL (lossless conversion of container) if the creator knows what they're doing. All you need to to is run ffmpeg on the appropriate m2ts file in the /STREAM folder using the "-c copy" flag, and the "-f matroska" flag = voila, a convenient single file in the widely-compatible/friendly mkv format instead of a Blu-Ray file structure (which isn't very convenient for the vast majority of us who are never going to burn BD-R media, but will instead play via a media center, Roku, etc).

International Jazz Day All Star Jam was webcasted yesterday in 1080p quality, but since it wasn't on "TV" it's disallowed unless I am misunderstanding the rules:

Quote:
12. Webcast rips and Digital Satellite Broadcasts are not permitted on The Traders' Den.
At the current time, webcasts and digital satellite radio broadcasts (such as xm radio) are not held to any reasonable quality standards. We are aware that there are some nice sounding webcasts and digital satellite radio broadcasts available in some locations, but at this point it would be a slippery slope to try to regulate what separates quality from not quality in these areas.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2015-05-01, 02:35 PM
UberDemon's Avatar
UberDemon UberDemon is offline
548.23 GB/3.83 TB/7.15
 
Join Date: May 2007
Re: Web Casts . . .

PS, that rule cites "slippery slope" as a rationale, but slippery slope is a logical fallacy:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

It wouldn't be a slippery slope as long as well thought out and clearly defined rules/standards were implemented. It would be a wise move to explore this, IMO, but either way I am eternally grateful to you and all the other TTD admins who make this site possible. I just want to see the site keep up with modern times, and in 2015 (some) webcasts are the cat's meow when it comes to high quality video. It's just a matter of separating the wheat from the chaff and determining minimal quality standards for bitrates, rules about no re-encodes, proper methods of pulling dumps that don't transcode/screen capture, etc.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2015-05-02, 01:13 AM
rspencer's Avatar
rspencer rspencer is offline
TTD Hoarder
TTD Staff
262.05 GB/271.31 GB/1.04
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: the outer limits
Re: Web Casts . . .

I don't know if any other mods have seen this thread, and I'm not much of a video guy, but I'll pass it along. The video mods may have more to say.
__________________
My main list .... My masters

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
Sometimes im dense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
I hate not being a real man.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2015-05-05, 01:34 AM
TriState TriState is offline
1.12 TB/2.82 TB/2.52
 
Join Date: May 2007
Re: Web Casts . . .

UberDemon is right. There are no significant differences between a digitally captured HDTV broadcast and a digitally captured HD webcast. Both situations are capturing a lossy video (and often lossy audio) source and writing it to a container (like mkv).

Rewriting the rules to state a minimum bitrate, resolution, and lineage requirements would be a much more rational approach.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2015-05-08, 11:42 PM
sonofedg's Avatar
sonofedg sonofedg is offline
1.18 TB/6.76 TB/5.73
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 400 Chelsea Ave . . .
Re: Web Casts . . .

I'm throwing my hat in this ring, Traders Den NEEDS to allow Webcasts . . .Small Files, Quicker than a VOB file . . .
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #11  
Old 2015-05-09, 11:34 PM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
TTD Staff
471.57 GB/2.01 TB/4.37
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Re: Web Casts . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberDemon View Post
PS, that rule cites "slippery slope" as a rationale, but slippery slope is a logical fallacy:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

It wouldn't be a slippery slope as long as well thought out and clearly defined rules/standards were implemented. It would be a wise move to explore this, IMO, but either way I am eternally grateful to you and all the other TTD admins who make this site possible. I just want to see the site keep up with modern times, and in 2015 (some) webcasts are the cat's meow when it comes to high quality video. It's just a matter of separating the wheat from the chaff and determining minimal quality standards for bitrates, rules about no re-encodes, proper methods of pulling dumps that don't transcode/screen capture, etc.
We are thinking about this, but I am just wondering what kind of "clearly defined rules" you would write to help define what is allowed?
__________________
Five's Checksums Demystified - everything and anything you want to know about checksums
On a Mac? Get XLD to rip your CDs. Please see this guide - X Lossless Decoder (XLD): How to create flawless CD rips on Mac OS X

TTD GoFundMe Campaign

Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #12  
Old 2015-05-10, 10:35 AM
vladsmythe's Avatar
vladsmythe vladsmythe is offline
TTD VIP
11.01 TB/4.71 TB/0.43
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Re: Web Casts . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofedg View Post
I'm throwing my hat in this ring, Traders Den NEEDS to allow Webcasts . . .Small Files, Quicker than a VOB file . . .
I buy 200 blank DVDs per week now, before they go away. Costco has discontinued their sales of them, and most stores such as Staples, Best Buy, Office Depot, etc. are saying the end is near. BluRay is also on the chopping block.

With the proliferation of high quality digital video, dvds are basically best for backing up important data as a hard copy, as hard drives will ultimately fail. At least half of my video downloads are digital source, and I watch them with my media player on my home theater system.

I will continue to make my archive vids dvd compliant for now, but sooner than later I will be uploading in digital format, to meet the needs of traders.

I too hope that the Trader's Den will consider this advancement in file sharing.
__________________
"Anyone that likes Bob Wills' music is bound to have some good in them."
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #13  
Old 2015-05-11, 07:03 PM
sonofedg's Avatar
sonofedg sonofedg is offline
1.18 TB/6.76 TB/5.73
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 400 Chelsea Ave . . .
Re: Web Casts . . .

1. Must come from a conformed source,
2. All the lineage rules apply . . .
3. The quality of the webcast varies, so no whining if the webcast doesn't meet your standards
These would be a starting point . . . . .
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #14  
Old 2015-05-12, 01:03 AM
rspencer's Avatar
rspencer rspencer is offline
TTD Hoarder
TTD Staff
262.05 GB/271.31 GB/1.04
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: the outer limits
Re: Web Casts . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofedg View Post
3. The quality of the webcast varies, so no whining if the webcast doesn't meet your standards
I understand what you're saying, but this point must be approached differently, as the entire goal at TTD is to ensure quality. We don't allow things just to allow them.
From the mission statement on the front page:

Quote:
Quality is not an option in the seeds here, it will be the standard.
__________________
My main list .... My masters

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
Sometimes im dense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
I hate not being a real man.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #15  
Old 2015-05-12, 06:40 PM
dcbullet's Avatar
dcbullet dcbullet is offline
Anti-Temperance League
TTD Staff
68.39 GB/422.37 GB/6.18
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Re: Web Casts . . .

I agree with those that think we should figure out a standard to allow webcasts. I think the time has come.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Site Announcements & Suggestions


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:21 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts