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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #1  
Old 2014-02-22, 08:45 AM
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Question hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

Hello again

known lineage:
sbd > ? > vinyl > ? > pop removal > ? > flac


opinions?
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  #2  
Old 2014-02-23, 01:23 AM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

Hard to tell by your graphs (though they look lossless). Can you post a couple of tracks.
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  #3  
Old 2014-02-23, 03:41 AM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

looks lossless to me, fairly standard for bootleg vinyl
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  #4  
Old 2014-02-23, 08:27 AM
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Arrow sample

Thank you,

here is a sample.
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  #5  
Old 2014-02-24, 12:25 AM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

Not lossy.
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Old 2014-02-26, 10:07 AM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

Looks like there's been a lossy step somewhere in the lineage after the vinyl.

The treble cutoff is too rough for a purely analog/lossless transfer, and note the transient smearing around the last click in the left channel in the spectrogram I attached.
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  #7  
Old 2014-02-27, 01:45 PM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

That's likely from the pop removal then. There's lots of software varying in quality and many sound lossy if there is too much applied.
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Old 2014-02-27, 02:43 PM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

Hardly. Pop removal removes pops. It doesn't remove noise around pops while leaving the pops alone, and it doesn't arbitrarily lowpass your music for no good either.
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Old 2014-02-28, 10:13 AM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

It can. Depends on the software quality. Some are more or less removing frequencies of your choice. I've used the stuff and don't anymore
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  #10  
Old 2014-02-28, 08:55 PM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

Could this be lossy sourced vinyl?
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  #11  
Old 2014-03-01, 09:31 PM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

I'm too tired to try and make actual sense of this right now, so I'll just point out some of the things I see for now:
  • The block-aligned variable lowpass with its strong tendency towards cutting off at 15 kHz has "psychoacoustics-based lossy compression" written all over it.
  • The spectrogram generally looks ATRAC-ish to me (the structure of the cutoff, but also the smeared clicks)
  • However, the temporal resolution of the cutoff looks a bit too fine for ATRAC (might be me being rusty, or due to the generally low volume of the treble content in the sample, which makes the variable lowpassing less obvious than usual, too)
  • The noise floor seems pretty high for a straight transfer from MD. (analog transfer from MD deck, possibly at low levels and volume was corrected afterwards, amplifying noise?)
  • The clicks do suggest vinyl in the lineage.
  • Some clicks are affected by smearing, while others seem not to be. (dumb windowing luck on the codec side? or maybe even vinyl > MD > vinyl, as implausible as that sounds?)

The attached pic might be better suited to illustrating these points than the one I previously posted.

Going by experience, gut feeling, and common sense, I'd guess "vinyl > MD, then analog transfer to HDD" but that's really just rusty me guessing wildly.
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  #12  
Old 2014-03-02, 11:46 AM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

I also believe there is mini disc in the lineage somewhere, but what the hell do i know
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Old 2014-03-03, 12:35 AM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drgiggles1 View Post
I also believe there is mini disc in the lineage somewhere, but what the hell do i know
Are you thinking what I'm now thinking. (a 32?) with a little over processing.
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  #14  
Old 2014-03-06, 07:04 PM
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Re: hendrix vinyl transfer "hells session"

My guess was minidisc > vinyl. But the release was 1987. First minidisc-recorders were released 1992.
Second guess was vinyl > md (or other lossy codec) > adding noise in software program > flac

Thanks for your input
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